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What is a molten salt reactor?

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Re: What is a molten salt reactor?

#71

Post by ncmncm »

seanhunter wrote: post #65
ncmncm wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may continue posting falsehoods, and I will continue pointing them out. We don't need "something" to make storage cheap. Storage is cheap, and is getting cheaper . Again , we are not building storage out yet because we don't have enough renewables to charge it from yet . Instead, we are right now building out factories to make it. E.g., the factories to make iron-air batteries, $20/kWh, are under construction rig…

Rather than stating that their (sourced) claims are false, perhaps you could post some sources for your claims instead? For example, it would be great to see references for the cost of storage and why storage isn't being built yet.

It is easy to lie by mis-citing sources. Read what the sources say, not what he says.

Re: What is a molten salt reactor?

#72

Post by ncmncm »

tinco wrote: post #69
ncmncm wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you find "materials the storage vessel is made of" in the salt, do you shut it down and abandon it? Alternative would be to drain it into a holding tank and, what, send somebody in to fix it? Who?

Literally anyone or anything? Repairing vessels is hardly an unsolved engineering challenge.

Repairing vessels with a slime of hard-radioactive salt over it is rather different from what people need to do in PWRs.

Re: What is a molten salt reactor?

#73

Post by noneeeed »

ortusdux wrote: post #29
m0llusk wrote: post #19

This boldly claims that molten salt reactors are safe, but my understanding is that these systems require carefully engineered coatings to function and that in practice every such system has leaked liquid sodium. The statement may be essentially true kind of like saying elevators are safe, but there is still room for risk analysis and expectation of occasional failures.

I've been working on molten salt reactor claddings for a few years now. MSRs are very safe. First, there are two main groups of molten salt systems. One group uses generic salt to transport heat. This usually provides efficiency gains over water based systems. These are the systems that might leak sodium and it's no big deal. The 2nd kind of system uses a salt with the fissile material dissolved in it. This is what t…

My physics is very rusty. Why is molton salt more efficient than water for heat transfer? Is it simply that you can get it up to higher temperatures and heat systems are more efficient at high temperatures?

Re: What is a molten salt reactor?

#74

Post by alvah »

ncmncm wrote: post #67
alvah wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What kind of storage? I wouldn’t bank on chemical storage technologies, at least if we want the type of reliable electrical grid that’s allowed us to develop as advanced industrial nations. Generally, reducing storage cost runs into the type of physical limits that software and silicon haven’t really encountered (yet). I wouldn’t bet against human ingenuity in the long term, but it’s not clear how the storage problem…

In other words, you have chosen to assume. Storage cost is plummeting for the same reasons wind and solar costs did and still are: manufacturing scale.

No post body was provided.

Re: What is a molten salt reactor?

#75

Post by mcv »

acidburnNSA wrote: post #10

See also my thorium myths page https://whatisnuclear.com/thorium-myths.html

I've been hearing for years now how fantastic Thorium is, but with every new article, I wonder: so where are all these new fantastic Thorium plants?

If they still don't exist, then surely that suggests it doesn't work, doesn't it?

Re: What is a molten salt reactor?

#76

Post by Gravityloss »

jiggawatts wrote: post #57
irjustin wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> These are the systems that might leak sodium and it's no big deal. Sorry can you back this statement up with more than "it's safe, trust me"? I'm not knowledgeable enough to say if this statement can be accepted at face value. History has shown that's not enough. But to me, any system that leaks by accident is a disaster waiting to happen on time scales that power plants are expected to operate on.

It's a relative statement. In this case, leaking molten sodium merely causes a nontoxic metal fire. Definitely in the category of "not fun", but not the end of the world either. Just dump some sand on it and wait for it to cool down. Leaks of molten salt nuclear fuels are an entirely different category of industrial disaster. A nuclear accident at best, and a large-scale disaster at worst. It's like the difference be…

Salt can be extremely chemically inert. Very different from sodium. Also it has very low vapor pressure so different from water.

Re: What is a molten salt reactor?

#77

Post by Gravityloss »

noneeeed wrote: post #73
ortusdux wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been working on molten salt reactor claddings for a few years now. MSRs are very safe. First, there are two main groups of molten salt systems. One group uses generic salt to transport heat. This usually provides efficiency gains over water based systems. These are the systems that might leak sodium and it's no big deal. The 2nd kind of system uses a salt with the fissile material dissolved in it. This is what t…

My physics is very rusty. Why is molton salt more efficient than water for heat transfer? Is it simply that you can get it up to higher temperatures and heat systems are more efficient at high temperatures?

High temperature, low pressure.

You can use water, sodium, lead, fluoride salts. All have their different issues.

Re: What is a molten salt reactor?

#78

Post by seanhunter »

ncmncm wrote: post #71
seanhunter wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rather than stating that their (sourced) claims are false, perhaps you could post some sources for your claims instead? For example, it would be great to see references for the cost of storage and why storage isn't being built yet.

It is easy to lie by mis-citing sources. Read what the sources say, not what he says.

It's easy to throw around accusations that other people are lieing, but it seems counterproductive to having healthy debate on here.

Re: What is a molten salt reactor?

#79

Post by jiggawatts »

Gravityloss wrote: post #76
jiggawatts wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a relative statement. In this case, leaking molten sodium merely causes a nontoxic metal fire. Definitely in the category of "not fun", but not the end of the world either. Just dump some sand on it and wait for it to cool down. Leaks of molten salt nuclear fuels are an entirely different category of industrial disaster. A nuclear accident at best, and a large-scale disaster at worst. It's like the difference be…

Salt can be extremely chemically inert. Very different from sodium. Also it has very low vapor pressure so different from water.

Not the salts used in reactors. Toxic element are used like fluorine, not to mention the fuel that’s dissolved into it.

Re: What is a molten salt reactor?

#80

Post by Gravityloss »

jiggawatts wrote: post #79
Gravityloss wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Salt can be extremely chemically inert. Very different from sodium. Also it has very low vapor pressure so different from water.

Not the salts used in reactors. Toxic element are used like fluorine, not to mention the fuel that’s dissolved into it.

I use fluoride tooth paste every day. I wouldn't put sodium in my mouth...
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