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Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

arxiv.org

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Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#71

Post by camgunz »

doubtfuluser wrote: post #31

I have the feeling, that the paper is flawed and missing an important experiment. All their results seem to rely on skills being used. There is indeed a need then for Amazon to prevent user tracking in skills (like for example Apple does and requires consent by the user). But to come to the conclusion that Amazon shares the data with advertisers I would have expected an experiment with eliminating skills as a reason…

They run this down as best they can (TLDR they don't think the skills have enough information about their personas to target ads to them, therefore Amazon must be doing the targeting, but they can't 100% rule it out):

> In contrast, skills can only rely on persona’s email address, if allowed permission, IP address, if skills con- tact non-Amazon web services, and Amazon’s cookies, if Amazon collaborates with the skills, as unique identifiers to reach to personas. Though we allow skills to access email address, we do not log in to any online services (except for Amazon), thus skills cannot use email addresses to target personalized ads. Skills that contact non-Amazon web services and skills that collaborate with Amazon can still target ads to users. However, we note that only a handful (9) of skills contact few (12) advertising and tracking services (Table 1 and Figure 2), which cannot lead to mass targeting. Similarly, we note that none of the skills re-target ads to personas (Section 5.3), which implies that Amazon might not be engaging in data sharing partnerships with skills. Despite these observations, we still cannot rule out skills involvement in targeting of personalized ads.

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#72

Post by midislack »

OOOOooooooohhh this one's really drawing a lot of damage control. Simple anecdotal evidence was enough to convince me and many other people years ago that Google and Amazon, at the very least, were spying in every way possible. Why wouldn't they? Users have technically agreed to all data collection anyway. It simply doesn't make sense to not collect data, if there is an option to.

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#73

Post by camgunz »

I'm always surprised at others' surprise that voice assistants are data gatherers for ads (maybe except for Siri?). Isn't the entire business model just 2 things:

- Gather data for ads

- Corner the "smart assistant" market... so you can gather more data for ads

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#74

Post by garciasn »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #68
garciasn wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ad agencies hearing that I want to know the weather, dad jokes, recipes, turn on and off my lights, and to listen to smooth jazz is literally the least of my problems when it comes to data being shared/sold. Just like anything, there’s a trade off and, for the case of convenience, I’m willing to make the trade off between convenience of talking to a device to do tasks for me and having an ad agency learn what music I…

I upvoted specifically, because this is effectively how a lot of users see this feature ( admittedly based on anecdata ). I might even expand on it. Most users do not even see a trade-off. Most see pure benefit. But.. there is hope as jokes along the lines 'Wiretap, what is the time?' seem to have become more common.

I know Amazon isn't doing a whole helluva lot with the data they're collecting on me via their UI nor their devices; if they were, I would have a lot better recommendations than they offer to me on the regular. Yes, recommendation engines are hard, but Amazon has the computational power, resourcing, and data to do it well, yet they're simply not.

So. For now, I'm fairly convinced the data collected are useless/meaningless and I'm happy to go about my day w/o much worry. If I suddenly start seeing much better targeted recommendations, I'll rethink my strategy.

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#75

Post by midislack »

zie wrote: post #70
z3c0 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what it's actually showing (per Section 6.1) is that Amazon is using wishy-washy language to give the impression that they are not using voice recordings to build ad profiles on users[1]. They instead claim that it's for "personalized experiences" and "building inclusiveness". This adorable little infographic on "the journey of a voice request" conveniently leaves out that it gets used for advertisement[2]. T…

> They have also made public statements that outright state that voice data doesn't get used for ad-targeting[3] “not use customers’ voice recordings for targeted advertising.” I guess it depends on how one reads that quote. A trusting sort could read that to mean, we don't use anything we learn from voice recordings for targeted advertising. A skeptic might read that quote and determine: Well we generate metadata fr…

NSA uses the same tricky language. Clapper got before the American people and said "nobody is reading your emails." What he didn't say is, computers are processing them because there's too many for people to read. In this case, I suspect Amazon is technically telling the truth, and automatic transcription into text is what drives their ad engine.

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#76

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

camgunz wrote: post #73

I'm always surprised at others' surprise that voice assistants are data gatherers for ads (maybe except for Siri?). Isn't the entire business model just 2 things: - Gather data for ads - Corner the "smart assistant" market... so you can gather more data for ads

Most of these companies are not lacking in the amount of data the can collect about you.

I find it hard to believe that listening in on random conversations, collecting the audio stream, processing it, data mining it, accounting for substantial noise - is worth the effort for any of these companies.

Maybe for a smaller startup. When you're already a $1T company - this just doesn't seem like a good or valuable data source. Not to mention, it is an OBVIOUS gigantic hit to your trust.

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#77

Post by netsharc »

wildmanx wrote: post #26
abricq wrote: post #24

I would be SUPER interested to see this same methodology applied to an iPhone or an Android phone resting in a room. I've already had the feeling that discussions that I had, later had an impact on my ads, but never knew if it was random or not.

Given the power demands of such an always-on analysis engine, that would show in battery runtime. At least if it's happening while the device is not plugged in.

A lot of people anecdotally believe this "they're listening", but I don't, since if it happens offline, it would consume a lot of power of the smart devices, and if it happens on the cloud, then the bandwidth and computing requirements would be gigantic and probably have poor ROI that it's not worth it. But maybe I'm overestimating those requirements.

Then again, I opened Instagram at a carwash once, and a few days later I got ads about car treatment products. I walked by an e-bike store the other day and stopped for about 15 seconds to look at the bikes being displayed, and a few days later Instagram started showing me ads for the brand. I thought Instagram or another Zuck-app was tracking my location, but I just checked and none of the Zuck-apps on my phone have location permission enabled.

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#78

Post by camgunz »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #76
camgunz wrote: post #73

I'm always surprised at others' surprise that voice assistants are data gatherers for ads (maybe except for Siri?). Isn't the entire business model just 2 things: - Gather data for ads - Corner the "smart assistant" market... so you can gather more data for ads

Most of these companies are not lacking in the amount of data the can collect about you. I find it hard to believe that listening in on random conversations, collecting the audio stream, processing it, data mining it, accounting for substantial noise - is worth the effort for any of these companies. Maybe for a smaller startup. When you're already a $1T company - this just doesn't seem like a good or valuable data so…

Yeah I think you're right here? Maybe my loss leader presumption is wrong and it's some combination of:

- We can build Echos/etc. cheaply and make a profit

- We're working on speech recognition/AI anyway, so we have the data centers

- We can subsidize this work by selling ad data

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#79

Post by Nextgrid »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #76
camgunz wrote: post #73

I'm always surprised at others' surprise that voice assistants are data gatherers for ads (maybe except for Siri?). Isn't the entire business model just 2 things: - Gather data for ads - Corner the "smart assistant" market... so you can gather more data for ads

Most of these companies are not lacking in the amount of data the can collect about you. I find it hard to believe that listening in on random conversations, collecting the audio stream, processing it, data mining it, accounting for substantial noise - is worth the effort for any of these companies. Maybe for a smaller startup. When you're already a $1T company - this just doesn't seem like a good or valuable data so…

> When you're already a $1T company

On the other hand, maybe when you're that big you've already covered the low-hanging fruits (and so did your competitors) and now need even more?

Re: Statistical Analysis shows Echos process voice to serve ads

#80

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

garciasn wrote: post #74
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I upvoted specifically, because this is effectively how a lot of users see this feature ( admittedly based on anecdata ). I might even expand on it. Most users do not even see a trade-off. Most see pure benefit. But.. there is hope as jokes along the lines 'Wiretap, what is the time?' seem to have become more common.

I know Amazon isn't doing a whole helluva lot with the data they're collecting on me via their UI nor their devices; if they were, I would have a lot better recommendations than they offer to me on the regular. Yes, recommendation engines are hard, but Amazon has the computational power, resourcing, and data to do it well, yet they're simply not. So. For now, I'm fairly convinced the data collected are useless/meanin…

I.. have a problem with this line of reasoning. If the data is there, it will be used; maybe it will not be used now, but it will used and you have little control over how and when..

And heavens know how much better we will get at it. I am retard at analytics and the things I saw are already absolutely amazing. Just because ads can't seem to show you relevant information is not a good indication Amazon can't infer you like midget porn.

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