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Espionage or Journalism? After the Snowden NSA Leaks (2020)

theatlantic.com

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Re: Espionage or Journalism? After the Snowden NSA Leaks (2020)

#71

Post by ncmncm »

BLKNSLVR wrote: post #51

This paragraph is quite interesting: Years later Richard Ledgett, who oversaw the NSA’s media-leaks task force and went on to become the agency’s deputy director, told me matter-of-factly to assume that my defenses had been breached. “My take is, whatever you guys had was pretty immediately in the hands of any foreign intelligence service that wanted it,” he said, “whether it was Russians, Chinese, French, the Israel…

> It comes off to me as fear mongering

As much as I think it was important to get out what they published, he is right on that detail: Greenwald and Poitras, at least, were and remain wholly unqualified to keep anything under wraps. They surely did their best, as well as they understood what they were even trying to do.

Re: Espionage or Journalism? After the Snowden NSA Leaks (2020)

#72

Post by ncmncm »

dragonwriter wrote: post #56
FFRefresh wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He appears to have went off the grid over the last 2 months. I imagine it's a very tumultuous time for him. Russia knows the US really wants to extradite him, and there will inevitably be rounds of negotiations as time moves forward. He may be a potential negotiating piece if the Russians are looking for concessions from Ukraine/NATO. (this is all speculation, but he has went dark)

> He appears to have went off the grid over the last 2 months. He really blew his credibility pushing the “Russia isn’t going to attack” propaganda line (ostensibly, as his own independent analysis of the situation), and his last tweet (3 days after the attack, his prior being 3 days before) was: “I’m not suspended from the ceiling above a barrel of acid by a rope that burns a little faster every time I tweet, you co…

Snowden's access to reliable information dried up long ago. Anybody relying on his opinions on affairs outside the US played themselves.

Re: Espionage or Journalism? After the Snowden NSA Leaks (2020)

#74

Post by ncmncm »

jacobolus wrote: post #70
ncmncm wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was generally a fan of Snowden (with some reservations) before the past 2 months... Who do you imagine you are fooling? I doubt you are even being paid for such clumsy stooging.

I think Snowden’s initial leak exposing widespread illegal action by the US intelligence community was a courageous act of conscience, and I think he did his best to reveal criminal behavior in what he considered to be a measured and responsible way. I think the US presidents since should have pardoned him and welcomed him to return to the USA (but I also understand the other side of this argument, and I think reason…

I read this as you giving a free pass to CIA employees and contractors who murder US citizens and foreign innocents, and blaming "the USA" (i.e., us) for the murders, instead.

Oh, that wasn't what you meant?

Snowden has no ability to offer or withhold passes to anybody. Which you already knew.

Re: Espionage or Journalism? After the Snowden NSA Leaks (2020)

#75

Post by jacobolus »

ncmncm wrote: post #74
jacobolus wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Snowden’s initial leak exposing widespread illegal action by the US intelligence community was a courageous act of conscience, and I think he did his best to reveal criminal behavior in what he considered to be a measured and responsible way. I think the US presidents since should have pardoned him and welcomed him to return to the USA (but I also understand the other side of this argument, and I think reason…

I read this as you giving a free pass to CIA employees and contractors who murder US citizens and foreign innocents, and blaming "the USA" (i.e., us) for the murders, instead. Oh, that wasn't what you meant? Snowden has no ability to offer or withhold passes to anybody. Which you already knew.

> Snowden has no ability ...

He has the ability to resign as president of the Freedom of the Press Foundation. He should exercise it.

Re: Espionage or Journalism? After the Snowden NSA Leaks (2020)

#76

Post by bostonsre »

farias0 wrote: post #10
bostonsre wrote: post #6

I wonder what Snowden thinks of having to live in Russia now with the war in Ukraine. It must be a little awkward.

Why? He used to work for the American government for god's sake

I'm biased but I think Russia's invasion and the way they are slaughtering civilians is a lot worse than the missteps that caused Snowden to disclose American secrets. Russia is also spiraling into an incredibly authoritarian police state that is much worse than what he was trying to prevent in America.

Re: Espionage or Journalism? After the Snowden NSA Leaks (2020)

#77

Post by jacobolus »

dragonwriter wrote: post #59
photochemsyn wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I don't understand is why Clapper wasn't at the very least charged with perjury for lying to Congress under oath. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/5-people-who-lied-...

> What I don’t understand is why Clapper wasn’t at the very least charged with perjury for lying to Congress under oath. What I don’t understand is why Clapper has to settle with merely “not being charged with perjury” while Brett Kavanaugh not only wasn’t charged with perjury, and continued in government service (in a position he got through his perjury) when his lies were established, but got promoted to the Suprem…

Kavanaugh spent literally his entire career as a GOP partisan activist. That was and is his chief qualification for the Court.

He started his career clerking for conservative judges including Judge Kozinski and Justice Kennedy. Then in the late 90s he worked for Ken Starr doing trumped up anti-Clinton “investigations”, and authored the Starr Report. In 2000 he was part of George W. Bush’s legal team that worked with the GOP-majority Supreme Court to prevent Florida from counting all of the votes from the 2000 election, blatantly unconstitutionally (and against all precedent) stomping on the Florida Supreme Court. For his services he was hired by Alberto Gonzalez at the Bush DOJ. Then later during the Bush administration he was at the Federalist Society, in charge of choosing which judicial activists the GOP should promote to federal courts (he also perjured himself answering Senate questions about his work there, FWIW).

Re: Espionage or Journalism? After the Snowden NSA Leaks (2020)

#78

Post by kkfx »

Any country sooner or later needs some black ops, reveling them in such cases is more espionage than journalism BUT when those ops are against country principles AND Citizens interests for the sake of a small élite than it's not espionage, it's journalism and those who try cover and crush such activities are guilty of high treason, embezzlement, in the Snowden cases also crimes against humanity, torture, massacres etc.

That happen tough only if the government is from an establish Democracy, if the democracy is just formal, not substantial, if citizens accept that instead of impose their sovereignty, that it does not happen.

Re: Espionage or Journalism? After the Snowden NSA Leaks (2020)

#79

Post by ncmncm »

jacobolus wrote: post #75
ncmncm wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read this as you giving a free pass to CIA employees and contractors who murder US citizens and foreign innocents, and blaming "the USA" (i.e., us) for the murders, instead. Oh, that wasn't what you meant? Snowden has no ability to offer or withhold passes to anybody. Which you already knew.

> Snowden has no ability ... He has the ability to resign as president of the Freedom of the Press Foundation. He should exercise it.

And you have the ability to stop making demands from your comfortable chair, in your comfortable house, in your secure neighborhood, of someone who has given all that up for your benefit.

Re: Espionage or Journalism? After the Snowden NSA Leaks (2020)

#80

Post by jacobolus »

ncmncm wrote: post #79
jacobolus wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Snowden has no ability ... He has the ability to resign as president of the Freedom of the Press Foundation. He should exercise it.

And you have the ability to stop making demands from your comfortable chair, in your comfortable house, in your secure neighborhood, of someone who has given all that up for your benefit.

I am on a safe comfortable bed in a safe comfortable flat in a safe comfortable city.

My friends in Ukraine are not so fortunate; they are profoundly unsafe and uncomfortable and they and many of their friends and family are now dead, refugees, or Russian prisoners, and their neighbors’ houses were turned to rubble.

Neither are the Russian journalists recently murdered or thrown in prison for nothing. Neither are the at least 14 journalists killed so far in Ukraine, some directly targeted by the Russian military.

If I were president of the Freedom of the Press foundation, I would either say something about it or resign. Someone who is under such grave threat (or so embarrassed/ashamed) that he cannot speak at all is in no position to remain president of the Freedom of the Press Foundation.

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