U.S. forgives 40k student loans • Hacker News Board

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#71

Post by manuelabeledo » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 4:18 PM UTC

theandrewbailey wrote: post #2

If we're going to be forgiving loans, we shouldn't be giving them out in the first place. Otherwise, we're going to be in the same spot in one generation's time.

The cost of higher education in the US is a joke.

Universities are tax exempt, and highly profitable. Many have endowments over $1 billion [1]. Yet, the average cost in state is $10,000 per year, and almost $30,000 if out of state. For comparison, the tuition at Oxford College, one of the most prestigious institutions in the world, is $12,000 per year.

Student loans may be considered even predatory [2], adding to the injury.

There should be a better mechanism to allow people to go to college in the US, without subjecting them to half a lifetime of debt.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_colleges_and_univers...

[2] https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/navient-settles-predator...

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#72

Post by mywittyname » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 4:18 PM UTC

_moof wrote: post #27

Please, please, please take note before commenting: These are being forgiven under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, created in 2007 (fifteen years ago), which eliminates your remaining debt after you've made ten years of payments while working in the public sector (government or non-profit). This has nothing to do with current debates around loan forgiveness.

I believe a lot of this wave of forgiveness is due to correcting/removing the road blocks for this program put into place by Devos in previous years.

The article refers to these as "historical failures" but I think that being very generous.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#73

Post by oh_sigh » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 4:19 PM UTC

thatguy0900 wrote: post #16

oh_sigh wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were cancelled because it turns out the schools were scams. So it was a situation where the students got into a lot of debt, and got nothing(like an education or a worthwhile diploma) in return.

Are the schools no longer scams? All this does is help the schools, if new students think they might not actually have to pay that debt at the end.

Do you think the schools aren't punished for being scams, and they're just free to keep scamming students? And debt relief helps the debtor, not the original receiver of the funds.

Example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITT_Technical_Institute#Legal_...

> On August 25, 2016, the U.S. Department of Education banned ITT Tech from enrolling students who receive federal aid. The Department also doubled the surety funds that ITT Tech was required to have, and to produce those funds within 30 days. Stock markets reacted with a punishing 35% drop, which triggered a halt in trading, raising concerns about whether ITT Educational would be able to survive this latest decision.[73] On September 6, 2016, ITT Tech ceased operations and closed all of its locations, issuing a statement that attributed the closing to the Department of Education's actions.[28]

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#74

Post by rafaelreinert » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 4:19 PM UTC

One question for the economists, how can U.S fight inflation if all I see on the news is the government printing money? As Brazilian I got used to that, the government create popular projects in order to increase the public opinions but it only generates more poverty’s. Obs: I’m Brazilian and I really don’t know nothing about USA economy and politics but seems the same that happened here.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#75

Post by nr2x » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 4:19 PM UTC

fortran77 wrote: post #36

juskrey wrote: post #6

How about giving back money to people who paid back their loans, possibly going through even greater difficulties to do that.

People in the US are always punished for being financially responsible.

More people are punished for being born poor - lead paint, air pollution, and crumbling schools don’t exactly lend themselves to upward mobility.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#76

Post by outside1234 » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 4:19 PM UTC

lallysingh wrote: post #60

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #26

I know every European seems to ask this of every American but what is the resistance to a welfare state? if you look at a government as investing in its citizens like a VC fund, then providing education and medical care is sensible, and some will turn out fine and others will be Bezos and then you can get your investment back via tax. I am honestly trying to avoid the flame war here - but I do it know how else to fra…

We don't want others not like us to get benefits, especially if it's paid out of a common tax pool. Even if it's not, if we're not eligible for the same benefits. The US population has had decades (almost centuries) of us vs them politics within the country.

This is right on.

There is an additional layer to this that some "blue collar" workers feel it is unfair to tax them for education benefits they don't utilize as a working class.

Hopefully we can reframe the debate to include technical skills training like this in addition to university to be inclusive of all of the modern skills people are going to need and that we as a nation need to invest in.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#77

Post by _moof » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 4:19 PM UTC

adoxyz wrote: post #11

qntty wrote: post #3

> At least 40,000 borrowers will receive immediate debt cancellation under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) Program. How is this news?

I think historically, the number of loans actually forgiven by the PSLF program has been very very low, even for people that qualify.

I know folks who have worked towards PSLF and ended up getting screwed because they weren't on the right repayment plan. Absolutely devastating to find out you've spent ten years working on something only to have it fall apart because you checked the wrong box once. And apparently this is a very, very easy mistake to make.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#78

Post by MR4D » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 4:20 PM UTC

_moof wrote: post #27

Please, please, please take note before commenting: These are being forgiven under the Public Service Loan Forgiveness program, created in 2007 (fifteen years ago), which eliminates your remaining debt after you've made ten years of payments while working in the public sector (government or non-profit). This has nothing to do with current debates around loan forgiveness.

This is a good point. The Public Service Loan Forgiveness (PSLF) Program is like the GI Bill, but they pay off your college debt after service instead of paying your college after service.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#79

Post by mc32 » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 4:20 PM UTC

sharker8 wrote: post #61

mc32 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just stop guaranteeing them, let students default on them. All these guaranteed loans that can't be discharged allows academic institutions to ratchet up the price. Let them calculate risk and price them accordingly.

This create market driven dynamics in which degrees basically are tailor made for industry. This approach disincentivizes pure research for scientific purposes.

You're saying companies DON'T want researchers?

In any case, if there is a specific need for specific research, I'm sure the gov can figure out a way to incentivize particular useful tracks which the market ignores. Grants programs, etc.

Re: U.S. forgives 40k student loans

#80

Post by abnry » Wed, Apr 20, 2022, 4:20 PM UTC

sharker8 wrote: post #61

mc32 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just stop guaranteeing them, let students default on them. All these guaranteed loans that can't be discharged allows academic institutions to ratchet up the price. Let them calculate risk and price them accordingly.

This create market driven dynamics in which degrees basically are tailor made for industry. This approach disincentivizes pure research for scientific purposes.

There is a tension between the two purposes universities have: To train students and to do research.

I want both, but I have a hard time disapproving of more focus on training students, as they are the true customers of universities.