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Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

driving.ca

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Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#71

Post by mortenjorck »

kayfox wrote: post #29

Having sat around in EVs charging with nothing to do, it would be better for Vancouver to incentivize charging stations at places where people might spend that time doing something, like stores, restaurants, etc. It would also be nice for chargers to be installed for street parking in popular areas. Sitting at a gas station for a half hour to an hour sounds more like punishment for having an EV.

Exactly; mandating chargers at gas stations has to be one of the worst thought-out policy ideas for charging infrastructure that I've seen.

An urban Target store in my area has a row of chargers along one wall of its parking garage. A carrot, stick, or both to encourage that in other places with large parking areas, especially ones where people are likely to stay awhile, would certainly seem like the way to go.

Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#72

Post by frenchy »

zeryx wrote: post #55
arcticbull wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's straight-up wrong. Home ownership rates in Canada are actually really high, 68.55% so more than 2/3 of Canadians own their own homes. [edit] In fact Surrey, while not Vancouver proper, comes in at the #4 spot for the highest percentage of millennials who own their homes. [1] [1] https://edisonfinancial.ca/millennial-home-ownership-canada/

Condos don't count.. unfortunately. Most condo boards don't support installing electric charging infrastructure.

> Most condo boards don't support installing electric charging infrastructure.

If they don't, that's on the owners who vote for and run the strata.

Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#73

Post by giantg2 »

b112 wrote: post #47
giantg2 wrote: post #12

This seems misguided to me. One of the biggest benefits to an EV is not having to go to a gas station. Most people can charge at home for their typical needs. Next, it makes sense to put then at a person's work, then at stores or public parking. And of course there needs to be charging infrastructure on highway gas stations and/or rest stops. Making all gas stations, especially urban ones, pay a fine for not having c…

This seems misguided to me. It costs the city nothing, and is a revenue stream from those which don't comply. Win #1. It allows tourists, travellers a place to charge, which they know is maintained, and works, and is enroute to somewhere. There is no downside here, for the city.

"There is no downside here, for the city."

Emphasis mine. Sure. The city could fine every store with parking spaces for not supplying charging infrastructure. We also have to see what those fines do to the businesses. It's possible that many gas stations decide to close or substantially raise their prices to cover the increased costs.

Basically, the city isn't the only stakeholder.

Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#75

Post by giantg2 »

crate_barre wrote: post #42
james_pm wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people can not charge at home. Where I live (Toronto), street parking is common. It's not possible to charge on the street near your house. Condos have parking garages and unless they put a charger at each single spot, most of those people can't charge either. Toyota has it right - there are huge issues to be solved before widespread roll out of EV is possible. The charging question is just one of them.

Naive question, but aren’t we talking about installing an electrical outlet essentially? Some of these options look like they plug into a wall: https://www.amazon.com/MUSTART-Portable-Charger-Electric-Cha... Bare minimum the apartment building can work to install wall outlets in the garage, or very long extension cords. Video: https://www.amazon.com/vdp/006d5bc8225646d086bb5afa191e52d8?... That’s not asking for a lot…

The outlet isn't a big deal. The infrastructure to support it is. You need to pay the supplier for additional supply lines, an electrician for the panel and other customer side infrastructure. That's the expensive part.

Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#76

Post by olivermarks »

capableweb wrote: post #46
james_pm wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people can not charge at home. Where I live (Toronto), street parking is common. It's not possible to charge on the street near your house. Condos have parking garages and unless they put a charger at each single spot, most of those people can't charge either. Toyota has it right - there are huge issues to be solved before widespread roll out of EV is possible. The charging question is just one of them.

> Toyota has it right - there are huge issues to be solved before widespread roll out of EV is possible. The charging question is just one of them. Not sure what Toyota has to do with anything (can't find them mentioned in the article), but I think that problem is a catch-22 problem. No one is gonna want to solve any issues about EV roll out unless people start using EV, but no one is gonna want to use EV unless ther…

https://www.motorious.com/articles/news/toyota-warns-about-r...

Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#77

Post by brewdad »

teeray wrote: post #35

I wonder how many will buy the cheapest compliant EV charger they can find and just hang a permanent “out of order” sign on it.

I'm a fan of the Youtube channel The Straight Pipes. This is always their biggest complaint about EVs. They drive in the Toronto area and it's not uncommon for 50-75% of the chargers to be non-functional.

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheStraightPipes

Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#78

Post by meragrin_ »

bsuvc wrote: post #20

Intended outcome: more EV charging stations Actual outcome: fewer gas stations

I think fewer gas stations is the intended outcome. I don't know anyone who would want to spend 15 minutes at a gas station let alone an hour. I just wonder if some chains have been preparing for this eventuality by slowly transforming themselves. I know Speedway has added cafes to some of their stores.

Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#79

Post by bastawhiz »

djfobbz wrote: post #51
james_pm wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people can not charge at home. Where I live (Toronto), street parking is common. It's not possible to charge on the street near your house. Condos have parking garages and unless they put a charger at each single spot, most of those people can't charge either. Toyota has it right - there are huge issues to be solved before widespread roll out of EV is possible. The charging question is just one of them.

If people can't charge their vehicles at home (inside their garage), I see that as a burden on the city to provide adequate street based charging stations...similar to parking meters they already have.

Why doesn't the city install gas pumps along the streets as well?

Parking meters are not comparable infrastructure. They often run on a small solar cell with almost no maintenance burden. Charging stations require a substantive amount of power and regular maintenance. Installing street chargers essentially requires entirely net new infrastructure.

Re: Vancouver proposes 10k-dollar annual fee for gas stations without EV charging

#80

Post by giantg2 »

ehnto wrote: post #40
giantg2 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they rent, where do they park at that residence? That's where it makes sense to charge. How many of the renters without parking have a car? If it's really true that "Most people in Canada" don't have a home, then do you really think that the 66 gas stations in Vancouver can accommodate all those people?

On the street, or shared parking lots, or yes indeed, not at all. Try organizing an on-the-sidewalk charging station for your unit block, even if you own your unit, you've got to convince your strata/hoa to plan, consult councils, build and maintain it. Then who pays for the electricity? At the moment at least, you're pretty likely to be the only one with an EV, so either everyone is paying strata fees to charge your…

Yeah, that's why I mentioned public infrastructure as one of the options for on-street charging.

The other reason I raise this, is that it could be more beneficial to fine the landlords or strata rather than gas stations. After all, if the goal is to increase charging infrastructure, there is more potential capacity here than at 66 gas stations and the paradigm for charging at longer duration parking spaces (home, work, restaurants) is more effective than charging at a short stop location (gas sations).

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