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Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

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71–80 of 228 posts

Re: Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The definition of the length of the work week and who it applies to is already a concept defined by government.

Unfortunately. People should be able to negotiate between themselves without interference from the government.

As should children! Why should the pesky government step in the way of my child working in a factory.

Re: Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

#72
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh whether government should have the right to do this takes a backseat to the fact that the government is the only way we can do this. The government is the only coordinating mechanism we have to enforce something like this, otherwise everyone is playing the prisoner’s dilemma.

Respectfully, this seems like a completely backward take. If you don't care about whether or not government should be able to do things, and are only concerned with whether or not it does things you like, you end up with a government that can do whatever it wants. Eventually, that power will be wielded by someone you find detestable, or even worse, someone who finds you detestable.

Seems like we're mixing up couple things here--(a) the level to which a government represents the people and (b) the powers that a government should have.

It's easy to lose sight of the fact that the government is--in its ideal essence--just a way for a population to collectively enforce compliance with / contribution to a social good.

I don't think it's controversial to say that if 100% of people wanted a 32 hour work week, the government should probably pass a law mandating that. Separately we can argue about the tendency for the aims of government to diverge from the aims of the citizenry or there being a slippery slope, but the "legitimate role" of government is representing the people.

Re: Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

#73

I really feel like work would be quite tolerable at 4 days a week. 5 days plus commute has always felt suffocating to me.

Consider that people used to work every day. Farming, hunting, subsisting. When organized religion and cities started to spread, you had one day a week as the day of rest. The industrial age and unionization brought us 5 days, which is now "suffocating." So if 4 days is the norm, that would start to feel suffocating also. Then it would be 3 days. Then, when work is the thing you spend the minority of your time on, yo…

Maybe that becomes possible at some point? A long time ago we needed 7 days a week to farm or hunt enough food to survive. With technological advancements we may be at a point where we need near 0 work days to feed everyone and create a comfortable life.

Then doing work isn't needed to survive anymore but instead only because you want to achieve something. That could be many different things for many people.

Re: Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

#74

Increasingly, American political parties are most interested in seizing and wielding power, and I feel like most citizens are occupied with surrendering and assigning that power to their preferred political party. How in the world did we get here? Is there any way we can turn back? Most of the discussion here is about whether mandating business practice would be a good or a bad business move, but hardly anyone is que…

The definition of the length of the work week and who it applies to is already a concept defined by government.

Stated this way it makes it sound as if the government, unbidden by anything external, just decided to make this a requirement one day. Of course, this was not the case.

In reality workers, unions and even industry leaders themselves were already pushing for this decades before the government codified it in the Fair Labor Standards Act.

Re: Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

#75

Note this seems to apply only to hourly workers. All of us salaried techies need to keep waiting for free market to open this up

Unionize, refuse to be on call, refuse to answer slack messages outside of work hours. If working in tech, and at startups specifically has taught me one thing it's that urgency is ALWAYS fake, you can put the fire out tomorrow morning. If there aren't consequences for bad planning then the bad planning continues. See also: financial bailouts of pretty much any kind, the cost of mistakes needs to be adequately large.

It's a great thought, but I'd be fired pretty quickly if I tried that. You will also not find a new job with those demands.

You know what I do to offset the after hours stuff? I slack the fuck off all day. It's not like anyone knows what I do anyway. "Hey Alar, what you up to today? -Oh y'know, just getting these switches up to date, gotta keep the packets flowing! Also have some phone stuff to do and getting the servers ready for patching this weekend! -Wow great job!"

Wake up at 8, "check email" until 9. Head to the office to show some face and actually check emails and do communication til 10. From 10-12 follow up with requests and put out any actual fires. 12-130 lunch. 130-330 knock out a meeting or two and then head home to "get my notes together and plan the next day" aka crack open a 6 pack.

I know this isn't always possible, but as long as you deliver SOMETHING every day, no one questions the infra "wizard".

Re: Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

#76

Increasingly, American political parties are most interested in seizing and wielding power, and I feel like most citizens are occupied with surrendering and assigning that power to their preferred political party. How in the world did we get here? Is there any way we can turn back? Most of the discussion here is about whether mandating business practice would be a good or a bad business move, but hardly anyone is que…

Eh whether government should have the right to do this takes a backseat to the fact that the government is the only way we can do this. The government is the only coordinating mechanism we have to enforce something like this, otherwise everyone is playing the prisoner’s dilemma.

The primary alternative to achieving this is through formation of unions. But, I’d wager there is an overlap between people who are against enforcement via legislation and people who are anti-union.

Re: Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

#77
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I mean we should also have a 32 hour work week but the laws surrounding it need teeth for sure. We should hold executives/managers criminally liable with the potential for jail time for repeat offenses. It's absolutely fucking absurd that shoplifting, especially when performed by disadvantaged folks carries harsher penalties than systematic wage theft. It's upside down clown world out there, abusing your positio…

Are you saying the punishment for shoplifting should be less if you're disadvantaged compared to if you're not?

No, I'm saying the reality is that the punishment often IS harsher if you're from a disadvantaged group. I think the punishments should be harsher for wage theft than shoplifting because the former is abusing a position of power, which I believe to be more corrosive to the fabric of society.

Though I also believe punishments should be proportional to your means, see for example speeding tickets in Finland. You shouldn't be able to afford to ignore the rules.

Re: Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

#79

Increasingly, American political parties are most interested in seizing and wielding power, and I feel like most citizens are occupied with surrendering and assigning that power to their preferred political party. How in the world did we get here? Is there any way we can turn back? Most of the discussion here is about whether mandating business practice would be a good or a bad business move, but hardly anyone is que…

> and I feel like most citizens are occupied with surrendering and assigning that power to their preferred political party

No, most of us are independent and lie to our friends for employment and sex

Re: Proposed bill would shorten California workweek to 32 hours

#80
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I mean we should also have a 32 hour work week but the laws surrounding it need teeth for sure. We should hold executives/managers criminally liable with the potential for jail time for repeat offenses. It's absolutely fucking absurd that shoplifting, especially when performed by disadvantaged folks carries harsher penalties than systematic wage theft. It's upside down clown world out there, abusing your positio…

Are you saying the punishment for shoplifting should be less if you're disadvantaged compared to if you're not?

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