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Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

businessinsider.com

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Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#71

Post by ptero »

throwaway4good wrote: post #24
Medowar wrote: post #15

More Background, why this is in fact important: Gazprom Germania is also a critical part of the german Gas-Market, because it owns the largest gas-Storage with 1/5 of total capacity in Germany, major Gas Pipelines and Platforms for trading the ressource. This is both through Sub-companies Wingas and Astora. It also has contracts with Gazprom in Russia with guaranteed Prices and Deliveries.

Exactly what is left of value in this company; except some payrolls, offices, and some contracts which are void anyway?

Pipelines (which I would not underestimate) and storage?

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#72

Post by recuter »

archerx wrote: post #51
recuter wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, they got top minds on this. Top. Minds. Nuclear canceled by the Green Party and pre-March went all in on Russian oil and gas.

Sometimes I wonder if the Greens are actually funded by petrol companies because everything they do seems to benefit them in the end. In Switzerland the Greens are trying to be as dumb as the German ones.

Old people vote more. Old hippies vote harder. Hippies are impressionable and watched a lot of Hollywood movies like:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_China_Syndrome

And more recently:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_(miniseries)

Jane Fonda is a sexy grandma who still got it, she stopped the war in Vietnam and got us in shape. With our powers combined, we are Captain Planet? We were elected to lead not to read!

Here is an additional thought: if you dedicate an entire party completely and totally to solving one problem, what happens to them if the problem actually gets solved?

Seems like a single issue politician is exclusively incentivized to shift blame in order to get re-elected rather than, you know, do anything constructive.

France is something like 70%+ nuclear powered, they got it all sorted for the rest of the century. Not much for the greenie weenies to do.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#73

Post by makomk »

DasIch wrote: post #58
recuter wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, they got top minds on this. Top. Minds. Nuclear canceled by the Green Party and pre-March went all in on Russian oil and gas.

Gas is used primarily by heating or industrial processes that require it. It can't be meaningfully substituted with anything else in the short term. To some extent you can't even substitute with gas from other sources because of lack of (connections to) LNG terminals.

The lack of both LNG terminals and adequate connections to ones in other countries is a big part of what people mean when they say Germany went all in on Russian gas. They physically cannot import enough gas from other sources, as I understand it, and this was an intentional and knowing decision despite warnings from other counties.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#74

Post by nix23 »

archerx wrote: post #51
recuter wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, they got top minds on this. Top. Minds. Nuclear canceled by the Green Party and pre-March went all in on Russian oil and gas.

Sometimes I wonder if the Greens are actually funded by petrol companies because everything they do seems to benefit them in the end. In Switzerland the Greens are trying to be as dumb as the German ones.

But in Switzerland the population voted against nuclear energy, and with that we "the people" are as stupid as the green party, right?

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#75

Post by majewsky »

pjc50 wrote: post #60
recuter wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, they got top minds on this. Top. Minds. Nuclear canceled by the Green Party and pre-March went all in on Russian oil and gas.

> Nuclear canceled by the Green Party .. after Fukushima. Trading one tail risk for another. (Germany has oddly lagged in deploying renewables, though. Possibly due to lack of offshore sites, meaning that wind farms have to be deployed against the efforts of NIMBYs)

After Fukushima, nuclear was canceled by the conservatives (the Merkel II government), when the Green Party was not part of the government. The Green Party did cancel nuclear, but in the year 2000. Their timeline called for the shutdown of the last nuclear power plants in the 2020s, which would have been ample time to build up enough replacement capacity from renewables. But that plan was neutered by the Merkel governments crippling the buildup of renewables for 16 years.

Which is not to say there's not also NIMBYism. There is in fact a ton of opposition to buildup of renewables from both conservative-leaning citizens and left/green-leaning advocacy groups.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#76

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

pjc50 wrote: post #60
recuter wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, they got top minds on this. Top. Minds. Nuclear canceled by the Green Party and pre-March went all in on Russian oil and gas.

> Nuclear canceled by the Green Party .. after Fukushima. Trading one tail risk for another. (Germany has oddly lagged in deploying renewables, though. Possibly due to lack of offshore sites, meaning that wind farms have to be deployed against the efforts of NIMBYs)

>.. after Fukushima. Trading one tail risk for another.

The statistical risks from nuclear actually causing a disaster are absolutely tiny in comparison, especially considering the upsides, but the Germans and Austrians want to be EU's nuclear doomers for shits and giggles just because Chernobyl and Fukushima happened, even though so many nuclear plants worldwide have run for decades without issue.

But sucking on the sweeet teat of Putin's gas for decades and burning it was the "greener" alternative for them instead.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#77

Post by JumpCrisscross »

unmole wrote: post #55
sonicggg wrote: post #40

How many years has Merkel remained in power? This awkward situation is all her doing, but still nobody will mention her name. How can one country willingly put its entire energy sector in the hands of a terrorist state, which has been showing signs since 1999 when bombing its own citizens.

The Soviet Union was a reliable energy supplier to (West) Germany even at the height of the Cold War. Ostpolitik was the dominant mode of thinking across party lines. The West has never had any qualms about buying oil and gas from the worst regimes in the world. This outrage over buying from Russia while turning a blind eye to Arab monarchies seems rather perfomative.

> outrage over buying from Russia while turning a blind eye to Arab monarchies seems rather perfomative

The Arab monarchies largely keep their messes in their own backyards. When there has been leakage, it has been limited. Russia rolling tanks into Europe is so harebrained it creates a new category of security risk we haven’t had close to home in a while: that of a madman.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#78

Post by bryanrasmussen »

baq wrote: post #50
recuter wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, they got top minds on this. Top. Minds. Nuclear canceled by the Green Party and pre-March went all in on Russian oil and gas.

makes you think if Green Party is also financed by Russia...

I would suppose so, if you see a relatively big organization promoting things that you want to happen why wouldn't you finance them?

That Russia would finance the Greens doesn't automatically what the Greens advocate for wrong, or that the Greens are actually traitors, what it does is twofold - start a process whereby the Greens can over time be corrupted (via the money spout), and indicate that whatever the Greens are doing there may be unintended side effects which would be of benefit to Russia.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#79

Post by ghaff »

NortySpock wrote: post #68
Toutouxc wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's interesting, so the tank is permanent and you refill it somehow? If yes, how often? Can you do the same thing with natural gas? Does the place you live in have natural gas?

Not your parent poster, but the tanks are commonly installed above-ground in the rural USA. It is propane (C3H8), which is liquid under pressure. Tanks are refilled as needed depending on usage via a tanker truck. I assume this is monthly but I don't personally have one. In the US, natural gas normally refers to methane (CH4) heating, attached to a city methane heating grid. I pay a monthly bill per cubic foot of met…

It depends on tank size and usage. I have small tank I use just for a range and it gets filled once a year—I use less than the minimum.

Re: Germany has seized control of Gazprom Germania

#80

Post by cout »

unmole wrote: post #55
sonicggg wrote: post #40

How many years has Merkel remained in power? This awkward situation is all her doing, but still nobody will mention her name. How can one country willingly put its entire energy sector in the hands of a terrorist state, which has been showing signs since 1999 when bombing its own citizens.

The Soviet Union was a reliable energy supplier to (West) Germany even at the height of the Cold War. Ostpolitik was the dominant mode of thinking across party lines. The West has never had any qualms about buying oil and gas from the worst regimes in the world. This outrage over buying from Russia while turning a blind eye to Arab monarchies seems rather perfomative.

What do you mean by "performative"?
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