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USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

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Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#71

Post by reaperducer »

aendruk wrote: post #25
vinhboy wrote: post #13

> It honestly feels like no matter what you buy, you get more or less the same hardware, and you’re most likely getting a heavily overpriced product just because some company printed their logo on it. Isn't this like a known thing? Almost all peripherals on Amazon will have dozens of the exact same form-factor with different logos on it. You just buy the one that is the perfect intersection of costs, positive reviews…

The most frustrating part is that I want no logo. It’s the worst of both worlds; no brand reputation, yet still covered in ads.

While not the ideal solution to your needs, I've found that Brasso does a great job of removing logos from electronics with a little elbow grease.

I've used it on my LG television, my Levoit air cleaning machines, and other devices.

Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#73

Post by certifiedloud »

Jhsto wrote: post #5

If you use a laptop with an external monitor, a better idea is to get a premium monitor which handles charging, video, and data transfer of USB devices connected to the monitor for you. This allowed me to get rid off the wonky USBC hubs, but before my employer got me a Dell monitor I didn't know that a single USBC connection can deliver all three.

I had several dongles and wires handing from my laptop until I read your comment just now. thanks!

Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#74

Post by jmyeet »

I've gone through a number of Thunderbolt docks over the last few years. I tend to prefer docks to hubs because you tend to use your laptop at several fixed positions, each of which might have 1 or more monitors, a network cable, accessories (eg keyboard, mouse, camera) and so on. It's easier to just plug in one cable from the dock to the Macbook that'll do everything including power it.

A good example of this is the Caldigit TS4 [1]. All the ports you could possibly want. Here's what I've learned.

First and foremost, you'll be surprised at how many issues come down to a given cable being bad. It's gotten to the point that whenever I buy any sort of cable I typically buy 2 or even 3 at the same time because I assume 1 will be bad or will go bad.

Second, also to do with cables, don't use any cable to connect from your dock to your laptop longer than a foot. These cables that can take power and full bandwidth for displays and accesories are the most technically demanding. Keep them as short as possible. And again, have spares.

Third, while I'm a traditionalist and like a wired connection (and thus an Ethernet port), it's really optional now, particularly at home where you have some control over the network. Like I can get easily get 500+ Mbps over Wifi at home. This of course assumes a sufficient Internet connection but if you don't have that then Ehternet is even less necessary.

If you have flickering display in particular, your first instinct should be to blame the cable.

[1]: https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-station-4/

Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#75

Post by Nextgrid »

jeffbee wrote: post #17

How much of the ethernet problems are due to these hubs and how much is due to ethernet autoneg just sucking? On my mac mini with whatever ethernet hardware they use, the link randomly negotiates 10, 100, full duplex, half duplex, flow control on or sometimes off. It's all coin tosses.

Potentially, but the problem is that now you had no choice. Back then, your laptop would come with a reputable (most likely Intel) Ethernet controller that you would use so you had no reason to buy an external one and bear the risk of getting a shitty one. Now, more and more laptops don't have an Ethernet controller, so you have no choice but to roll the dice and churn through multiple dongles until you get one with a controller that doesn't suck.

Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#76

Post by xattt »

moritonal wrote: post #7

If you want a decent dock you have to spend a bit of money. I went through this pain before accepting the cost and buying a CalDigit Thunderbolt 4 Element Hub[1]. Run's two 4k displays at 60Hz, any peripheral and charges my laptop. So good I bought a second. 1. https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-4-element-hub/

I ended up getting a Lenovo USB-C Gen 2 hub a couple of years ago, and it’s still on sale. Also very satisfied.

I’m able to switch my personal (Lenovo) and work (Dell) laptops, mostly without issue. I say without issue because the Dell/Intel only supports HBM2 so won’t do two monitors if one of them is more than 1080p.

I settled on using the HDMI out from the laptop to split the difference in frustration and convenience.

Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#77

Post by tinus_hn »

zamadatix wrote: post #42
smoldesu wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually agree. Normally I'm against proprietary ports, but vendors that have done this in the past have traditionally killed a lot of birds with one stone. Both Dell and Lenovo's docking solutions are fantastic, and don't require expensive hardware to manufacture docks. As a result, you can get the full IO of your computer extended to a dock with 10+ ports for less than $30. Pretty great solution IMO.

The downside is all of the hardware ends up inside the laptop where you still pay for it and now can't upgrade it separately or reuse it with another laptop. Not that I ever remember Dell/Lenovo docks being $30 new anyways.

And if one of the tiny wires breaks and causes a short, not only can you cause a fire but you also damage the connector in the laptop which can only be fixed by replacing the motherboard, which is more expensive than the laptop itself and not covered by warranty.

Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#78

Post by filoleg »

hvs wrote: post #11

We've only had any luck with Elgato Thunderbolt (not just USB-C) hubs with Macs. Everything else has had issues.

is it just me or is Elgato Thunderbolt 3 Pro case looks pretty much exactly like Belkin Thunderbolt 3 Dock Pro case[0] (with the main difference between Belkin having a USB-C port replacing one of the USB-A ports, and the SD card reader and headphone jack being left-right swapped)? It looks the same even down to the curves and materials/colors, and even the naming is that close.

No complaints about the quality of the product btw, I have been using one myself for almost 2 years. I just found it pretty interesting that even the most recommended hub ends up potentially being just as suspect in terms of "who made it".

0. https://www.belkin.com/us/business/hubs-and-docks-for-busine...

Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#79

Post by bsder »

moritonal wrote: post #7

If you want a decent dock you have to spend a bit of money. I went through this pain before accepting the cost and buying a CalDigit Thunderbolt 4 Element Hub[1]. Run's two 4k displays at 60Hz, any peripheral and charges my laptop. So good I bought a second. 1. https://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-4-element-hub/

For the sake of anecdata, I found that even the Caldigit docks fail to work on the Intel Macbook Pros (I only have a single data point about the M1s and they didn't work there either). When I hook even basic things like my keyboard and mouse up to the USB A ports, things work for about 20 minutes or so (varies widely) and then the USB A ports go dead requiring a reboot to restore.

This is a known failure mode, but it doesn't hit everybody. It is solely an Apple software fault as older OSs do not exhibit it. I really wish I knew what the issue was.

On the plus side, I found this so infuriating that I finally threw all in and switched to Linux full-time (Lenovo X1 Carbon with a ThinkPad dock) and haven't looked back since.

Side note: practically every thunderbolt dock I have works fine with every x86 laptop I have running either Windows or Linux (including the Caldigit!). YMMV.

Re: USB-C hubs and my slow descent into madness (2021)

#80

Post by jandrese »

InTheArena wrote: post #10

And sadly, I own two out of three of those. It's worth noting that the Realtek is crap, even ignoring the OSX driver situation. I have a few of the 2.5GBe dongles to make my synology speak 2.5gb/s (because a modern NAS is 2020 should have more then gigabit, but doens't because reasons). The driver in Linux is hot mess. I seem to have much more luck then some with it.

Realtek chips have been garbage since the 90s. But they have also been the cheapest option for just as long so you see them absolutely everywhere, especially with third party accessories. It is typical to see hardware errata documents several pages thick from them, if they provide support at all. Getting the drivers working well is pure masochism as you have to deal with the terrible documentation (if you have it at all) and the abysmal quality of the hardware.

But they have turned their garbage products into a multi-billion dollar company and that's all that really matters in the world of business.

Whichever chip is the cheapest is the one that every accessory maker will use. It is rare that a company can break through with a product that advertises higher quality components but at a higher price, or they end up with such a massive premium on what should be a modest increase in BoM that the value proposition still doesn't make sense.

As a sidenote this is exactly what I expected to happen as laptop manufacturers started aggressively cutting ports from their machines. You have to switch to dongles, but dongles suck and the total experience is much worse than having a laptop that is 2mm thicker.

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