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Incident report: Spotify outage on March 8

engineering.atspotify.com

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Re: Incident report: Spotify outage on March 8

#71
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> getting used to the convenience of having control over the entire chain What convenience is that? How do you consider that your setup is in anyway more convenient that opening the Spotify app and listening to basically anything? If you are into very niche music or something maybe, but it's pretty hard to beat just clicking "play". Now if you said you simply pirate the songs I could see the convenience of saving mon…

Because of outages and or censorship of content

I probably listen to music on Spotify ~5h a day while I work and I haven't had any downtime ever since I subscribed. As for censorship there was that thing with Joe Rogan, but as far as I know Spotify sided with him so I don't see where the censorship is?

Re: Incident report: Spotify outage on March 8

#72
post #46

Over the past year I've taken to just buying my music and using plex/plexamp for the streaming convenience. I'd have a hard time going back to other streaming services after getting used to the convenience of having control over the entire chain. Buying music also serves as a nice way to spend digital credit from Amazon. It ends up costing me about as much as streaming.

> getting used to the convenience of having control over the entire chain What convenience is that? How do you consider that your setup is in anyway more convenient that opening the Spotify app and listening to basically anything? If you are into very niche music or something maybe, but it's pretty hard to beat just clicking "play". Now if you said you simply pirate the songs I could see the convenience of saving mon…

My biggest complaint with all the streaming apps I tried was that their interface was terrible (in my opinion), so that was an especially important consideration to me. I prefer an 'old school' music player interface that focuses entirely on just my library.

Then there's also the issue of VPNs, especially on my phone, I prefer to always have my VPN active which most streaming services do not allow.

Plus, on desktop I often prefer to use a separate music player (MusicBee), which again lends itself nicely to the self-hosted solution since I just have it pointed to the same library as plex. Related to this is that I can organize my music however way I want and don't have to worry about being locked into the app's quirks.

Then, with the spotify outage I came across many complaints about login timeouts causing the app to outright log them out, preventing them from accessing even their downloaded music, which is also a nice thing to not have to think about.

On top of all that, my taste in music is indeed slightly niche and it isn't too uncommon for some track I have to outright not be on any streaming service (sometimes because it's too old, sometimes because it's from too small of an artist or isn't a public release), so not having to switch to a different app for only that music is also nice.

So combining all that makes a plex/plexamp style arrangement much more convenient to me than any streaming service.

I used to pirate the music back when I was too young to afford it and might still do so for music that isn't available for convenient purchase (ie only available by importing expensive physical media from the other side of the world), but otherwise since I can now afford it and am often somewhat invested in the artist's career, I don't mind buying it.

Re: Incident report: Spotify outage on March 8

#73
post #29

Just a reminder that downloaded audio files work offline, can have very high or lossless quality not restricted by bandwidth, have a concept of ‘ownership’ with no DRM, don’t have ads or tries to sell your data (though voluntarily contributing to ListenBrainz is admirable), don’t require a monthly fee, and if bought legally gives a bigger slice of the money pie to artists. Also podcasts are just RSS audio.

As well as some potentially really shady practices. https://youtu.be/whQ8UBoz-To

Re: Incident report: Spotify outage on March 8

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>unannounced change deployed by GCP to their load balancers Google doesn't need to announce every change they make. It was Firefox's fault for not supporting the protocol correctly.

Changing a default behaviour, yes they do. If you feel they don't, then you might be happy with GCP's services. It does not inspire any confidence with me.

It was known in advance that HTTP/3 support would eventually be enabled for the load balancers. If you wanted to force support for it or force it to not support it there was an override setting. Mozilla did not override the behaviour meaning that they did not mind HTTP/3 to be advertised as being supported.

Re: Incident report: Spotify outage on March 8

#75
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe some token expired and could not be renewed. They also mentioned a bug on a client grpc library.

Everybody was instantly logged out, which doesn’t make sense if their backend just went down, as the app normally works fine offline.

Well, not everybody, since I was logged in all week and didn't experience any downtime.

Re: Incident report: Spotify outage on March 8

#76
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Last.fm I’ve listened to 156k songs from 16k artists (35k albums) over a little less than 10 years. Last time I bought music it was on iTunes and the lowest price was €0.79 per song. That would be a total of €123k. Over the same period, I gave exactly €1200.93 to Spotify [1]. [1] note: it’s a pure coincidence that this is ~ €10 * 12 months * 10 years; the price has not always been the same.

How do you find so many different songs? Shuffle? You are essentially listening to 40 new songs per day.

Can't say for them, but for me I have a single playlist 6,994 songs on shuffle. I try to add songs every week, haven't recently as I also should be moving off of Spotify.

Re: Incident report: Spotify outage on March 8

#77
post #65

Over the past year I've taken to just buying my music and using plex/plexamp for the streaming convenience. I'd have a hard time going back to other streaming services after getting used to the convenience of having control over the entire chain. Buying music also serves as a nice way to spend digital credit from Amazon. It ends up costing me about as much as streaming.

I have issues with Plex regularly with file formats not playing nice, incorrect box art, content being labeled completely wrong, and random server hangs. It's OK, but I wouldn't say it's more convenient than Spotify. With Spotify I do literally nothing. With Plex I have to troubleshoot now and then. I don't see how self hosting a media collection is more convenient in any way.

I haven't had an issue with server hangs or file formats (not suggesting that those can't exist), but for metadata I'm in the habit of putting all music I buy through MusicBrainz Picard which can automatically fix any errors or missing metadata fields and put them in a neat structure (Artist/Album/Song). Haven't had to manually fix any matches since that.

But yes, if you don't have to do anything to have an enjoyable experience on Spotify, then there's no reason for you to bother with self-hosting.

Re: Incident report: Spotify outage on March 8

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Changing a default behaviour, yes they do. If you feel they don't, then you might be happy with GCP's services. It does not inspire any confidence with me.

It was known in advance that HTTP/3 support would eventually be enabled for the load balancers. If you wanted to force support for it or force it to not support it there was an override setting. Mozilla did not override the behaviour meaning that they did not mind HTTP/3 to be advertised as being supported.

so this is my "worked in aws" informed take, but you absolutely do not force default behavior change on anyone unless it is absolutely necessary, and advertising http/3 isn't necessary.

Re: Incident report: Spotify outage on March 8

#79
post #43
post #29

Just a reminder that downloaded audio files work offline, can have very high or lossless quality not restricted by bandwidth, have a concept of ‘ownership’ with no DRM, don’t have ads or tries to sell your data (though voluntarily contributing to ListenBrainz is admirable), don’t require a monthly fee, and if bought legally gives a bigger slice of the money pie to artists. Also podcasts are just RSS audio.

According to Last.fm I’ve listened to 156k songs from 16k artists (35k albums) over a little less than 10 years. Last time I bought music it was on iTunes and the lowest price was €0.79 per song. That would be a total of €123k. Over the same period, I gave exactly €1200.93 to Spotify [1]. [1] note: it’s a pure coincidence that this is ~ €10 * 12 months * 10 years; the price has not always been the same.

6500 different songs by 1650 artists last year for me. I wouldn't say I listen to that much music, but buying individual albums is completely unrealistic. I've bought some, mostly to support artists, but in the future I'd be more inclined to buy merch (which is often unfortunately hard to find.) Similar to Steam, pirating is so much worse that paying a little for quality streaming is acceptable. As for data, I'm practically giving that away with last.fm anyway.

It's a combination of Spotify's fantastic weekly playlists, keeping up with new releases, and exploring new genres.

Re: Incident report: Spotify outage on March 8

#80
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can consistently tell the difference between Spotify Premium's 320kbps and Apple Music's lossless, I am very impressed. Most folks reading this won't be able to. Having used both, I'm now happily paying for Spotify to avoid using the train wreck that is the Apple Music app. It is a true shame what Apple has done to iTunes.

You can definitely hear a difference when the Apple track is using Atmos or spatial audio and your system or headphones support it. Also, I’m not certain, but I think the tracks that are studio masters are often mixed differently. I’m not sure what it is, maybe greater dynamic range (cd tracks are louder). I think it sounds better. Even though Apple sounds better, I probably still use Spotify more because the client…

Not sure if that’s the question you’re asking but, the Atmos mixes are a completely separate deliverable. They need to be the same length as the original stereo master and obviously shouldn’t deviate so much that they sound like a different piece of music, but there’s a lot of scope. Also, the loudness wars are kind of over now that streaming platforms normalize to a loudness target; if your track is super hot it’s just going to get turned down.
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