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Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

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Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#71
post #12

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Do you know about what Victoria Nuland (leaked intercepted tapes), Senator John McCain, Senator Lindsay Graham, Hunter Biden, CIA John Brennan, etc. did in Ukraine? Do you know that Zelenskyy had a sub-28% approval rating from his own population because he threatened to acquire nuclear weapons, threatened to join NATO, join the EU (comes with military connections also, BTW), take back Crimea and the entirety of the D…

> Do you know about what Victoria Nuland (leaked intercepted tapes), Senator John McCain, Senator Lindsay Graham, Hunter Biden, CIA John Brennan, etc. did in Ukraine?

They brought freedom and democracy to the Ukranian people. It is axiomatic.

Seriously, how can this be down voted or disputed? Reality might be hard to accept but this is ridiculous....

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#72
post #62
post #12

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This sort of braindead mindset is exactly why learning dialectical materialism is so important. You're essentially denying causality. A bobcat is cornered by a man with a stick, the bobcat lashes out, you blame the bobcat. You walk around a corner to see a kid hit another kid. You blame the one who did the hitting because you don't care to investigate what was happening before you rounded the corner. There are decade…

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Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#73
post #8

I took a number of classes with Mearshiemer in college. He's right on many things, wrong on others. In this case, he's right that NATO expansion at least contributed to the current situation, but I think he's wrong in undervaluing the great increases in peace and prosperity that have been gained in those countries that did join NATO.

Maybe Russia should just join NATO. This would require Russia to change in a lot of ways from how Putin runs things, but who would that be bad for, really?

Maybe rather the EU instead of NATO?

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#74

Seeing this play out in the media reminds me of the Iraq War hysteria in 2003. Completely one-sided coverage, classic war-time propaganda (ghost of kiev), banning Russian arts and paralympians, etc. I've lost all faith in the media. Period. You may think that there is an absolute answer to this situation, but there isn't. I recommend that you study commentators and scholars such as: John Mearsheimer, Zbigniew Brezins…

I have studied this situation nonstop for the last week and I pretty much have the same opinion as you. If you ask a simple question, Cui bono? (Who benefits?) it becomes clear that it’s ultimately another military industrial complex project. The sad part is that the only real victims here are the Ukrainian people, who were led along with false promises. Had NATO been wiser, none of this would be happening.

I think military-industrial complex gets its pound of flesh rain or shine. Westerners like their high-paying defense jobs. This is about bringing the entire world, state-by-state, under anglosphere concepts of law/property/morality/etc--but instead of subordinating Indians and Africans, it's Slavs this time.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#75

Mearsheimer also is directly blaming Ukraine here in a way that hardly seems reasonable. "When you’re a country like Ukraine and you live next door to a great power like Russia, you have to pay careful attention to what the Russians think, because if you take a stick and you poke them in the eye, they’re going to retaliate. States in the Western hemisphere understand this full well with regard to the United States."…

>This seems too forgiving of Russia and also the US re: Central and South America. He seems to be saying that Russia/the US reaction is probably morally wrong, but completely expected behavior. And the moral aspect isn't worth considering as history has shown that great powers usually act out of strategic interest not moral consideration. Yeah, it'd be great if great power politics ended. Ukraine trying to change to…

Both aspects exist, that's my only real disagreement with Mearsheimer (the significance of each is another issue.) You just laid it out in a way that he seems to refuse to in the interview, so unfortunately half the interview was the 2 guys talking past each other.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#76

Mearsheimer also is directly blaming Ukraine here in a way that hardly seems reasonable. "When you’re a country like Ukraine and you live next door to a great power like Russia, you have to pay careful attention to what the Russians think, because if you take a stick and you poke them in the eye, they’re going to retaliate. States in the Western hemisphere understand this full well with regard to the United States."…

I'm Canadian. As a Canadian I am fully aware that my country exists strictly at the whim of the US. If we were to decide to form a military alliance with Russia, hosting Russian troops on our soil, Canada would be invaded by the US in a New York minute. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool. It sucks of course but it is what it is. That is all he is saying.

An interesting theory, but hardly comparable to what is going on in Ukraine.

Canada is not compatible with Russia, so forming a military alliance is a crazy idea.

Putin is the aggressor who has invaded an European country just because their actions did not suit him.

There are no acceptable excuses for the invasion, it's a very dangerous game he is playing as Russia cannot live with the sanctions in the long run.

At the very best he can hope to get away with an agreement that Ukraine will never join EU or NATO, and will stay neutral forever.

Even then, there is no 100% guarantee that Ukraine will not go back on that deal in the future.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#77
Mearsheimer has this annoying tendency to switch between two completely different claims: (a) that the west caused this crisis in a billiard balls sort of way, x leading to y leading to z, and (b) that the west is culpable for this crisis. Yes, obviously NATO expansion and EU overtures to Ukraine must've upset Putin and that may have played a role in all of this, but unless we think that it's reasonable for Russia to dictate to other countries which alliances to form and what kind of politics to pursue, then there's no moral responsibility for the outcome. So which is it then, did we not pay attention to Russia's "legitimate security concerns" or did we not pay attention to their illegitimate "great-power politics"?

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#78
My problem with Mearsheimer and the other realists is they have a very poor explanation why the status quo changes. Yes great power competition explains why tensions are high but does little explain why and when they spill over to war.

Notably absent from this article is any discussion of "why now?". Commenters in the thread are saying that his 2015 article on the subject could be written last week. That's precisely the issue. Why did Russia raise the stakes in December? Sure, NATO's eastward push has demonstrably increased tensions but the eastward push has been frozen since about 2014 since countries can't join NATO if they have territorial conflicts. If anything tensions should have been easing with a new, slightly more Russia friendly, German Chancellor, the nearing completion of NordStream2 and President Zelsynsky ran on a platform of improved relations with Moscow.

If you just look at the independent variables you inevitably are going to make conclusions from ideology rather than testing hypothesis. This type of article is the international relations equivalent off economists have predicted 5 of the last 3 recessions.

You can also see this weakness play out in Mearshimer's answers to journalists questions about the agency of Ukrainians in this article. He dodges the question and points to a speech from George W Bush in 2008, which was 15 years and 3 presidents ago, and prior to the current Ukrainian regime. In contrast he can't explain why the Baltics entering NATO did not trigger the same reaction. If we're going to look at history we can't ignore that these Eastern European Countries have endogenous reasons for joining NATO including the USSR and then Russia's long history of invading those countries.

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#79
post #62
post #12

Quoted post unavailable.

This sort of braindead mindset is exactly why learning dialectical materialism is so important. You're essentially denying causality. A bobcat is cornered by a man with a stick, the bobcat lashes out, you blame the bobcat. You walk around a corner to see a kid hit another kid. You blame the one who did the hitting because you don't care to investigate what was happening before you rounded the corner. There are decade…

What is the direct existential crisis facing Russia? Rather, it seems like Putin faces personal embarrassment of his and his nation's perception.

From what I've read, the 1999 OSCE agreements say that there is an "inherent right of each state to be free to choose or change its security arrangements and alliances" and Russia signed those. Is that wrong?[0]

Because if it's just chasing past glory, no, that's a very bad reason and should be given no more respect than the US invasions in the Middle East in the early 2000s.

[0] https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_106788.htm%3Fsel...

Re: Why John Mearsheimer Blames the U.S. for the Crisis in Ukraine

#80
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you know about what Victoria Nuland (leaked intercepted tapes), Senator John McCain, Senator Lindsay Graham, Hunter Biden, CIA John Brennan, etc. did in Ukraine? Do you know that Zelenskyy had a sub-28% approval rating from his own population because he threatened to acquire nuclear weapons, threatened to join NATO, join the EU (comes with military connections also, BTW), take back Crimea and the entirety of the D…

Do you know that there has been Russian vs. Ukrainian fighting for nearly a 1000 years (maybe more)? Russians were slaughtering Ukrainians before the world knew of the North American continent.

Could you be so kind to provide some references supporting your view?
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