71–80 of 213 posts
You wanna bring it to more of the world? Try adding crypto as payment method. I know you have a political stand against using crypto (the "crypto is bad for environment" FUD spread by traditional financial players), I hope you'll get your heads out of you know where and do this to actually bring framework to the unbanked masses.
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It's possible to install Linux, but it requires a bunch of fiddling. And even then power management tends to not work great. I'd love if Linux has as officially supported and just worked.
A pre-install option for linux would increase user trust that it'll "just work"
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The sleep then hibernate sounds promising. But is it something you need to configure yourself?
On Linux? Yes. Changing the mode is just a matter of changing one line in one file. But getting hibernate to actually work is a bit of hassle, especially if you have any kind of encryption or non-standard file system. This said - I managed to get mine working on encrypted Btrfs.
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Sure, but when you look at the ordering page, it doesn't mention linux as an OS option, just Windows or no OS
Do you think a significant amount of people who want to run Linux will want it preinstalled for them?
I would say that installing Linux is like being able to tune your guitar or a chef being able to sharpen their knives, but it's an order of magnitude easier than either of those things.
Agree with sibling that maintaining preinstalled Linux is a good sign that all the guts and peripherals are compatible, although that might be a perverse incentive to use a bleeding edge kernel/distro to accommodate flashy hardware. If anything, they should install a boring LTS/Debian Stable, completely stock other than a custom wallpaper.
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A pre-install option for linux would increase user trust that it'll "just work"
People have been waiting for a Linux that "just works" for decades. And they'll probably still be waiting for the next 20 years. But that's not really the point of using Linux.
That philosophy is probably part of the reason, why linux on the desktop stays in its small niche inside tech circles.
Most people, myself included, indeed want a system that "just works" - to get the actual work done. And then if the basics work, I can enjoy the full freedom to tweak it to my needs in infinity.
But only very few people enjoy "freedom to tinker", when it means "mandatory tinkering" to get basic functionality.
My best linux times were indeed, when stuff just worked. I was really surprised the first time I used a live Linux cd and everything "just worked". No manual driver installing, like I had known from windows. It booted up and everything was just there.
It was different, but it worked. And then I discovered the endless possibilities and freedom to change ANYTHING.
But fast forward to today: my quite modern laptop still has standby/resume issues on linux, making it hard to enjoy it at times. And I don't feel like compiling the kernel myself to maybe see a slight improvement.
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There's a Linux configuration https://frame.work/blog/linux-on-the-framework-laptop
Sure, but when you look at the ordering page, it doesn't mention linux as an OS option, just Windows or no OS
I think this is doubly true when you consider the elevated support task they have by the nature of how upgradable/repairable the laptop is. The number of issues I’ve seen from people (and I’m just an owner who lurks a bit in some of the communities) who didn’t know how to properly insert RAM or have had other more basic problems (which is separate from the more widespread issue of installing the wifi cards, where the antenna cables were legit the most difficult I’ve ever dealt with and I have years of experience — Framework sent me a replacement cable and card and that was great), makes me sympathetic to them trying to grow their support teams at an even pace and not inviting a bunch of support queries that can tie-up even the more established Linux hardware vendors.
So yes, I agree, better Linux support would be great. The good news is that it’s already becoming an enthusiast computer so Linux support, especially on newer kernels, is already better than on many other enthusiast laptops (the suspend issues and some recent kernel regressions for wifi are obviously issues but they aren’t isolated to just the Framework), so hopefully that will help. But a hardware startup can only focus on so many things and if being explicitly Linux-first isn’t one of those things (and due to market size, I think that probably makes sense when you have mainstream aspirations), it probably isn’t a good idea to over-promise in that respect — especially when the DIY options and unofficial support is really strong/encouraged.
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This is a point that people should remember if they're thinking about purchasing a framework. This is still very much beta hardware. The battery drain is annoying, it's around 30-50% per night depending on what addon cards you have. I've got a setup that puts it close to 40% per night so the laptop has to live on charger over night if I want to use it the next day. However, the thing that's really stopping me from us…
> The mac-book killer was very much hyperbole from paid reviewers. Hold on. Which reviewers received payments in return for positive coverage of the laptop?
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A pre-install option for linux would increase user trust that it'll "just work"
As someone with a Dell XPS 9310 for work where Linux is a pre-install option, I can tell you it definitely doesn't mean it "just works". The Framework I got for personal use, on the other hand, worked OOTB with a Linux USB installer.
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Perf Avg? I thought the M1 was absurdly fast, no?
Opening my Emacs config on a top i9 mbp takes an average of 3–4 seconds. On an M1: <1s.
3-4seconds would drive me insane :O
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Opening my Emacs config on a top i9 mbp takes an average of 3–4 seconds. On an M1: <1s.
Not to stir the eternal debate, but if my Vim config takes > 100ms, I start debugging what's going on/figuring out the responsible plugin. 3-4seconds would drive me insane :O