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Theses on Sleep

guzey.com

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Re: Theses on Sleep

#71

Post by guzey »

RandomThrow321 wrote: post #64
guzey wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I probably also wouldn't equate "a person with an ADRB1 mutation can sleep less" and "a single individual that underwent brain surgery can sleep less" with "Decreasing sleep by 1-2 hours a night in the long-term has no negative health effects". I made 5 points in that section ( https://guzey.com/theses-on-sleep/#decreasing-sleep-by-1-2-h... ): > 1. A sleep researcher who trains sailors to sleep efficiently in order…

I'm not arguing you should not have included (1), (2), and (5), I'm arguing you should not have included (3) and (4) because they do not support the point of the passage.

No, you are. You specifically wrote that I "equate" (3) and (4) to my conclusion. You wrote:

>probably also wouldn't equate "a person with an ADRB1 mutation can sleep less" and "a single individual that underwent brain surgery can sleep less" with "Decreasing sleep by 1-2 hours a night in the long-term has no negative health effects".

Re: Theses on Sleep

#72

Post by antisthenes »

guzey wrote: post #63
antisthenes wrote: post #59

How does your essay explain that I feel horrible for 2-3 hours after waking up if I don't get enough sleep? I don't just mean feeling a little slow. I am physically sick to the point of being unable to eat food, having a headache (not every time) and not being able to process information (e.g. reading an email 2-3 times and still not comprehending it fully). Is this a unique reaction?

> How does your essay explain that I feel horrible for 2-3 hours after waking up if I don't get enough sleep? So, you are saying that when you don't get enough sleep, you feel fine most of the day, except for the first 2-3 hours after waking up? This is pretty weird and I don't have a good explanation for you.

Yes, on a good day it takes me maybe 30-40 minutes to get going.

On a day when I don't get enough sleep, it takes several hours, negating whatever "time savings" there are from forgoing sleep.

Re: Theses on Sleep

#73

Post by RandomThrow321 »

guzey wrote: post #71
RandomThrow321 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not arguing you should not have included (1), (2), and (5), I'm arguing you should not have included (3) and (4) because they do not support the point of the passage.

No, you are. You specifically wrote that I "equate" (3) and (4) to my conclusion. You wrote: >probably also wouldn't equate "a person with an ADRB1 mutation can sleep less" and "a single individual that underwent brain surgery can sleep less" with "Decreasing sleep by 1-2 hours a night in the long-term has no negative health effects".

Yes, I am well aware of what I wrote. Let me clarify.

Your section is titled:

"Decreasing sleep by 1-2 hours a night in the long-term has no negative health effects".

You make two points below to support that claim:

- "A single-point mutation can decrease the amount of required sleep by 2 hours, with no negative side-effects."

- "A brain surgery can decrease the amount of sleep required by 3 hours, with no negative-side effects."

Those points do not support your claim, and I am pointing that out. I have no issue with the other 3 points, nor did I say anything about them.

Re: Theses on Sleep

#74

Post by mxkopy »

guzey wrote: post #62
Karawebnetwork wrote: post #57

> Think about sleep 10,000 years ago. You sleep in a cave, in a hut, or under the sky, with predators and enemy tribes roaming around. You are on a wooden floor, on an animal’s skin, or on the ground. I would argue that some of my best nights were during outdoor survival situations where I slept in small shelters that kept my warmth and on a hard surface. Personally, the sound of a familiar bird species will lull me…

Are you seriously arguing that sleeping out in the nature, potentially with dangerous animals around you, on bear skins, with several friends (on the same bear skin?) is as comfortable as sleeping on a modern mattress in your home?

There have been studies that confirm sleeping outside results in sounder and healthier sleep.

I think about it in terms of germs. Yes, on paper it's more safe to sanitize everything, but in doing so we prohibit our ability to build defenses, and actually become less healthy.

In the same vein, maybe by sleeping on mattresses indoors all the time, we fail to build a tolerance to adverse sleeping conditions, and maybe get more sensitive to them too.

Re: Theses on Sleep

#75

Post by [deleted] »

guzey wrote: post #49
dreig wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may attempt to apply the same analogy to drinking water, and see that it doesn't work. If you drink as much as you want, then you'll probably drink too much (with whatever negative consequences arising as a result). But, except for some extreme circumstances, I don't think people drink much more than is necessary to quench their thirst. That is your conclusion might still be correct, but it doesn't follow from th…

Is drinking modern water a superstimulus like modern junk food from my analogy is?

[deleted]

Re: Theses on Sleep

#76

Post by waterhouse »

> Modern sleep, in its infinite comfort, is an unnatural superstimulus that overwhelms our brains with pleasure and comfort

Would you expect this to generalize to other animals? For example, if you gave ultra-comfortable beds to dogs, mice, etc., would you expect them to spend longer times asleep? And I think we should specify "asleep, not merely resting" here.

Re: Theses on Sleep

#77

Post by gexla »

guzey wrote: post #62
Karawebnetwork wrote: post #57

> Think about sleep 10,000 years ago. You sleep in a cave, in a hut, or under the sky, with predators and enemy tribes roaming around. You are on a wooden floor, on an animal’s skin, or on the ground. I would argue that some of my best nights were during outdoor survival situations where I slept in small shelters that kept my warmth and on a hard surface. Personally, the sound of a familiar bird species will lull me…

Are you seriously arguing that sleeping out in the nature, potentially with dangerous animals around you, on bear skins, with several friends (on the same bear skin?) is as comfortable as sleeping on a modern mattress in your home?

My anecdote is that when I get migraine headaches, I have to lay down and try to sleep. I have to lay on hard ground. I can't stand being on a mattress for some reason. Maybe it's about feeling more control over the position of my body.

Re: Theses on Sleep

#78

Post by subw00f »

nnoitra wrote: post #5
georgewsinger wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://twitter.com/alexeyguzey/status/1490664815039234051 I think the author has been pretty forthright in seeking critiques from professional sleep researchers and neuroscientists.

I will post random theories about the nature of the universe and I'll tweet that I'm expecting critiques from physicists about my theory. Damn, should look good on a resume.

No post body was provided.

Re: Theses on Sleep

#79

Post by raflemakt »

Karawebnetwork wrote: post #57

> Think about sleep 10,000 years ago. You sleep in a cave, in a hut, or under the sky, with predators and enemy tribes roaming around. You are on a wooden floor, on an animal’s skin, or on the ground. I would argue that some of my best nights were during outdoor survival situations where I slept in small shelters that kept my warmth and on a hard surface. Personally, the sound of a familiar bird species will lull me…

I lived in a lavvo from august 2015 to April 2016, and it was the most awesome year ever (including in terms of sleep). I had a nice setup with a platform covered with sheep skins, and two sleeping bags (it reached -15C that winter in southern Norway).

Back when I was younger (10-14) I slept outside more than half of the days of the summer. In the barn, under trees, in trees, far into the forest, often accompanied by my horse, dog and cat. The feeling of waking up outside is so nice. In the forest, the first birds in the morning waking you up, finding new places and exploring. I had capes, some of wool, one of reindeer skin, and that's all you need to be comfortable during the night. I used to ride my horse far into the forest and we would just stay there until the next day. Playing flute, doing woodworking or reading while the horse was grazing.

Re: Theses on Sleep

#80

Post by novok »

guzey wrote: post #62
Karawebnetwork wrote: post #57

> Think about sleep 10,000 years ago. You sleep in a cave, in a hut, or under the sky, with predators and enemy tribes roaming around. You are on a wooden floor, on an animal’s skin, or on the ground. I would argue that some of my best nights were during outdoor survival situations where I slept in small shelters that kept my warmth and on a hard surface. Personally, the sound of a familiar bird species will lull me…

Are you seriously arguing that sleeping out in the nature, potentially with dangerous animals around you, on bear skins, with several friends (on the same bear skin?) is as comfortable as sleeping on a modern mattress in your home?

I knew of an old thai man who's face looked like he was 80 and his body looked cut and jacked. He also preferred to sleep with a thin mat on a hard tile floor with his wife in a house where there were multiple clean, usable beds to easily sleep on instead.

So if your body adjusts to it, it's definitely possible to actually prefer it.

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