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Unlearning perfectionism

arunkprasad.com

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Re: Unlearning perfectionism

#71

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

ibi5 wrote: post #68
voisin wrote: post #6

The most apt description I have come across of perfectionism is that it stems from some unresolved trauma that led to a fear of not being accepted and resulting lack of confidence.

I know that you didn't exactly invent the term unresolved trauma, BUT... As a person with a lot of unresolved trauma (and perfectionism issues), I hate the term "unresolved trauma". I've been working hard with a therapist and a psychologist for years, and I've made a ton of progress, but my trauma will never be truly resolved. Every few years some new facet of damage will pop up that I won't expect and will have to w…

One could argue that there will never be an accurate term, and thus hating the term for not being completely accurate is perfectionism.

But I could be wrong.... (Says the perfectionist, letting himself off the hook if he is wrong, which he may very well be because he's talking out his ass)

Re: Unlearning perfectionism

#73

Post by Mazgas »

bee_rider wrote: post #26
Mazgas wrote: post #25

I kind of wish I could train myself to be a bit more towards perfectionism than I am. I know it is a different problem than y'all are having, but sometimes it feels that when everyone is stressed about a project I am the only one laid back like "it will work, even if we're a little late" or, which is worse, "readers will point out a mistake if we missed it on the overview". I call it "community feedback", but others…

> "forgiving errors before tgey are even made" this is brilliant if it was intentional.

It was. Or wsa ti?

Re: Unlearning perfectionism

#74

Post by rochak »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #14

The article is correct, in that attaching our identity to an outcome is a problem. It doesn't just have to be perfect results. It can also be emotional relationships with other people, getting a job or a promotion, winning a contest/game, an imagined endgame, etc. I don't think there's a damn thing wrong with setting a high bar; possibly unreasonably high, as long as I have a healthy reaction to that bar not being me…

I understand your methodology but struggle to understand how you draw the line for the different levels? Is there a measure to realize that what you have got at the moment is just good and not very good?

Re: Unlearning perfectionism

#75

Post by rochak »

cardosof wrote: post #51

My wife is a perfectionist, she spends unreasonable amounts of time even in little tasks (like making the bed) to make sure it's "perfect". We all talk about perfectionism in the workplace or job-related activities but in reality it's a PITA in every aspect of life.

+1. I can't imagine how many hours I must have wasted on perfecting something only to realize that most of them don't matter, at least not more than the other aspects of life. It is a PITA and there are times when I feel that it could be due to this CS field I am in. I had been ignoring it for years and only recently decided to think about switching fields that are less demanding.

Re: Unlearning perfectionism

#76

Post by agumonkey »

onion_knight wrote: post #4

Mental health issues too often remain untreated among high-achievers who are able to maintain a surface appearance of holding it together. It's a good trend that nowadays we feel able to talk more openly about struggles like this. I see myself in this article but for me, the word that was the key to find resources to get better was the broader acronym RNT, "Repetitive negative thoughts". Perfectionism themes are one…

I believe, in every system, that includes humans, the ability to pause is key.

If you can't stop whatever is fueling negative habits / emotions, even if it looks noble or whatever (learning, art, sport, perf, love) .. it's probably not good.

Re: Unlearning perfectionism

#77

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

rochak wrote: post #74
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #14

The article is correct, in that attaching our identity to an outcome is a problem. It doesn't just have to be perfect results. It can also be emotional relationships with other people, getting a job or a promotion, winning a contest/game, an imagined endgame, etc. I don't think there's a damn thing wrong with setting a high bar; possibly unreasonably high, as long as I have a healthy reaction to that bar not being me…

I understand your methodology but struggle to understand how you draw the line for the different levels? Is there a measure to realize that what you have got at the moment is just good and not very good?

In my case, it's very much a "gut feeling," but I work on my own stuff.

I like to stay at a 1-digit bug count, with that digit being "0," if at all possible.

I have a development technique that is afforded by the tools I use, and the platform. I call it "Constant Beta." I also do what I call "Evolutionary Design," where I refine the actual project plan and design, as I proceed.

Basically, I keep the app at ship quality, from the very beginning. If I encounter bugs -any bugs- at any time during development, I stop all forward development, until the bug has been fixed.

I test a lot. I tend to use test harnesses, or the integrated app, as opposed to unit tests. Unit tests are applied, once functionality has been established; and only for those parts of the system that makes sense. I like to break projects out, into standalone packages, with discrete lifecycles. I often publish these, as open source.

I like to do full integration testing, as soon as possible. Almost all of my testing is done on the whole system (which might be incomplete, with stubs and mocks).

"Constant Beta" means that I start releasing TestFlight beta to my team, as soon as possible. As an example, I have been working on the project that is my current obsession, since September 5th, of 2020 (first commit). I have been making TestFlight releases, since October 6th, 2020. I've made well over 500 TestFlight releases, in that time. I'll have to count the tags, but it may be over 600, by now.

If you know anything about TestFlight, you know that Apple vets the releases (but not as stringently as for release into the App Store). They won't approve a TestFlight release, unless the app is already quite substantial, and doesn't crash. In fact, in one release, Apple helped me to spot a bug, because they made it crash in a way that had escaped my testing, and rejected the build.

I can scare up a full-fledged, "shippable" app, in a few days. All the time since, has been spent adding functionality to the app, testing, refining, testing, pivoting, testing, refactoring, testing, removing functionality, testing, going back to the drawing board, testing, etc.

All the while, keeping a cadence of multiple releases per day (once the first release has been made of a version, builds are approved almost immediately).

Tends to keep the quality high.

Re: Unlearning perfectionism

#78

Post by ComputerGuru »

savant_penguin wrote: post #20

To me a good trick to avoid perfectionism is to call something a v1 and just finally finish it

Nope. The Rust community’s embracing of version 0.x is what did it for me. 1.0 is a big deal. It’s what you get judged by (in my book). 0.x? You can bungle that. It’s ok.

Re: Unlearning perfectionism

#79

Post by whatshisface »

jancsika wrote: post #27
zwkrt wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It can be a self-indulgence in which one engages at the expense family or friends. It’s even worse if the perfectionism is applied to those around you directly. The thought process is something like “well I hold myself to a high (but maybe poorly defined and changing) standard, so why not hold those in my life to that same standard!?” Of course it is impossible for anyone to live up to your nebulous and nonverbal “…

> The thought process is something like “well I hold myself to a high (but maybe poorly defined and changing) standard, so why not hold those in my life to that same standard!?” Seems like a lot hinges on your parenthetical. If Bob has a well-defined and consistent standard that works for him, what's wrong with filtering Eve out of his life with it?

Wrong cosmically? Nothing, prejudice is a self-punishing mistake. Wrong for Bob? Well, he's lost a friend and not gained anything.

Re: Unlearning perfectionism

#80

Post by raziel2701 »

soheil wrote: post #37

Arun is describing almost every flaw a human being can have and wrapping it all in what he calls perfectionism. A good way to see if the scenarios he paints qualify you can just ask the question, if I did those things differently would I then be less of a perfectionist? I'm not sure the answer is an emphatic yes.

I disagree, I can think of a whole lot of other human flaws that don't fit under the umbrella of perfectionism the author describes. Narcissism, hypocrisy, abuse, violence, anger-issues, being Scottish, etc. Fear of failure/uncertainty seems to be a common thread under the umbrella of perfectionism, as well as an inability to really see ourselves and our conditions for what they really are.

As I was reading the article there were sentences where how I view myself and the reality clashed and it elicited a familiar feeling of avoidance and discomfort. I am not that biased towards action as I'd like to believe. Let me hide from that ugly truth.

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