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App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

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Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#71

Post by anonymouse008 »

itg wrote: post #17
stuff4ben wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I tend to side with the tech companies (Apple in particular) due to the security issues and review process. It's not perfect and the cut seems excessive IMO, but there is value there that can't be dismissed outright. It'll be interesting to see how Apple and Google handle this. Maybe they'll allow side-loading with big, scary language? Or perhaps a cheaper or even free tier for developers to allow apps on their respe…

I don't buy the security issue scare-mongering from Apple if they are required to open up their platform. Bruce Schneier points out the flaws in Apple's argument very well in his letter https://www.schneier.com/essays/archives/2022/01/letter-to-t... .

If I paid for Apple's centralization, by buying their products, and now that's being forcefully removed from me. How is this ok?

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#72

Post by notyourwork »

nerdjon wrote: post #69

As long as this does not cause an exodus from the App Store and I am forced to start paying for apps directly, I am fine with this. But a strong benefit to the App Store for me is being able to manage and cancel my subscriptions from a central place. No going through 5 screens, no being forced to call, no any of that crap. I can already see apps refusing to carry through the App Store so they can control more, and I…

Where is Apples incentive to leave it centralized if they cannot siphon as much money from the pipe?

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#73

Post by duped »

DannyBee wrote: post #65

One downside (as a consumer) of this bill is that it requires app store owners to allow spamming users "A Covered Company shall not impose restrictions on communications of developers with the users of the App through an App or direct outreach to a user concerning legitimate business offers, such as pricing terms and product or service offerings." Yay, more spam (probably all starting with "Dear user, we have a legit…

They already do, see Uber

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#74

Post by nerdjon »

notyourwork wrote: post #72
nerdjon wrote: post #69

As long as this does not cause an exodus from the App Store and I am forced to start paying for apps directly, I am fine with this. But a strong benefit to the App Store for me is being able to manage and cancel my subscriptions from a central place. No going through 5 screens, no being forced to call, no any of that crap. I can already see apps refusing to carry through the App Store so they can control more, and I…

Where is Apples incentive to leave it centralized if they cannot siphon as much money from the pipe?

I mean I would argue that the very reason I have subscribed to several of the apps I have is because I was able to do it through the App Store and I knew I could easily cancel.

Had that not been the case I would have never subscribed which gives the developers and apple that money.

Basically apple is getting more money from me because I took more of a risk on something.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#75

Post by teknopaul »

zepto wrote: post #30
keleftheriou wrote: post #27

Great news. Apple has turned the magic of software development from “how cool would this be?” to “how cool would Apple be with this?” That’s an environment of software suppression instead of free innovation, and Apple has felt little pressure to change. For anyone concerned about the security and privacy implications, don’t fall for the misconceptions perpetuated by Apple: non-App Store apps will still be sandboxed (…

Quoted post unavailable.

Android is the dominant platform, and there is a lot of cool software missing. E.g. Any app that takes donations to charity or payments outside apple. Maybe not cool to you because you don't notice the cut apple takes.

Apple users don't even realise there is competition in the keyboard market.

Of the many cool apps missing are the ones that require root. Neither platform provide that so loads of apps are impossible.

Android is the only platform if you want control of your own mobile device.

Apple give two hoots about that because they have no competition in consumer markets.

Lots of people have old iPhones they could be using for a load of funky projects or just plain simple software projects but apple don't let them.

Some useful iPhone apps that don't exist.

Mobile web server. Pos device WiFi bridge. Portable software demo device. Non itunes music player. Non apple payment device. ...

An iPhone is just a computer that Apple tell you what you can do with.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#76

Post by anonymouse008 »

zepto wrote: post #30
keleftheriou wrote: post #27

Great news. Apple has turned the magic of software development from “how cool would this be?” to “how cool would Apple be with this?” That’s an environment of software suppression instead of free innovation, and Apple has felt little pressure to change. For anyone concerned about the security and privacy implications, don’t fall for the misconceptions perpetuated by Apple: non-App Store apps will still be sandboxed (…

Quoted post unavailable.

Thank you for sensibility.

We all seem to forget that we as people have a choice. Either we go where other people go, or we chose to go somewhere else.

It is not a precondition to have success in society to use an Apple device, so why does it matter that they chose to operate the way they do?

A developer might want to target Apple specifically because AppStore provides a potentially high consumer lifetime value client for your offering; but guess what, if you were as valuable to your customer as Netflix, you could abide by Apple's rules completely and still be a successful company. The AppStore in app purchase doesn't matter -- Netflix iOS just says, 'good luck! figure out how to sign in!'

Which gets to the other part of this, side loading != pay through AppStore. The 30% rake is the wind for this bill's sail, and it's not right. Just mandate alternate payment links like EU / whoever.

Side loading will lead to more 0 clicks and NSO breakthroughs. The surface of attack is increasing.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#77

Post by thaumasiotes »

sudosysgen wrote: post #57
e4e78a06 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Android already has side loading, and Epic tried and failed to get a third party store going. I highly doubt this bill will do anything unless it mandates that Google can't mandate Google Play Store as a condition of receiving development support.

F-Droid, Amazon, Samsung, and multiple Chinese companies are operating third-party stores with a fair amount of success.

> multiple Chinese companies are operating third-party stores with a fair amount of success

The Chinese companies are getting a substantial subsidy; the Google Play store is blocked in China.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#78

Post by shimfish »

As an indie dev, I'm really not getting this.

Android has had alternate app stores for years. I don't recall any of them being a panacea for poor struggling devs held captive by Google Play. I stopped offering my apps on any of them as it was never worth the bother.

What problem is this trying to solve for who exactly? I don't see any way this ends up as a win for small devs.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#79

Post by yalogin »

If this comes into effect will we see a plethora of appstores on each devices? Every app worth its salt will want to create their own bundle or App Store and hope to control their own end to end experience. I cannot imagine how terrible that experience is going to be.

Re: App store bill sails out of Senate Judiciary Committee

#80

Post by teknopaul »

keleftheriou wrote: post #56
zepto wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Android is in fact the dominant platform by number of users, and has cool stuff like cloud gaming apps that iOS does not. There are also other aspects of the iPhone that many people prefer over Android phones, e.g. hardware features and quality. The point about sandboxing is relevant because many people conflate sandboxing protections with the protections offered by App Review, and thus are afraid that non-App Store…

This is Hacker news, everyone reading this should be able to hack up something of personal use on their phone.
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