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Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

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Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#71

Post by dbbk »

paulgb wrote: post #3

I'm excited to see support for Web Push. I realize that most people associate it with spammy sites asking for permission to send you notifications you don't want, but I think it hasn't really been given a chance because it lacks iOS support. Some things that it enables: - Low-friction asynchronous turn-based games (think “Words with Friends” but you don't have to install an app) - Single-purpose alerts (like CamelCam…

If Apple do do this, which I'm not certain they will, I imagine they'll be very restrictive on the permissions. Can only prompt to be enabled from a direct user action (eg a button click), and the latest iOS notifications prompt quite often if you want to keep them or stop them.

Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#72

Post by dbbk »

mwexler wrote: post #5

Funny enough, apps were supposed to be just for Apple. The original conception is that 3rd party tools, games, etc. for the iPhone would just be webapps. ( https://9to5mac.com/2011/10/21/jobs-original-vision-for-the-... , etc.) A few adjustments to the model and here we are with lots of native code and big money... but still, folks requesting updates to the the browser to support more app-ish functionality. I'm glad;…

It was also kinda weird because when they announced "the solution is web apps!" they made a big deal that developers could make their web apps just look exactly like native apps. But they never actually released any SDK, stylesheets, or anything to achieve that. In reality everyone had to mimic the look through CSS on their own, and even write absurdly complicated JavaScript libraries to emulate the scrolling.

Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#73

Post by donmcronald »

mrtksn wrote: post #24
paulgb wrote: post #3

I'm excited to see support for Web Push. I realize that most people associate it with spammy sites asking for permission to send you notifications you don't want, but I think it hasn't really been given a chance because it lacks iOS support. Some things that it enables: - Low-friction asynchronous turn-based games (think “Words with Friends” but you don't have to install an app) - Single-purpose alerts (like CamelCam…

So, once this is integrated clicking a link will have the following experience: 1) Tracking preferences overlay that will have a wall of text with "Accept all" and "Customise" buttons that would not be clickable the first few tries. 2) Then you will have a modal that asks for your e-mail address so you can receive the newsletters from the website that you are trying to understand what is this all about. 3) And now yo…

I really want to see PWAs become a viable option for distribution, but you do have a point. I sometimes end up on websites using my iPad where I can't even read the content. I wonder why the company would publish a site so poor that it seems like they didn't even try it on an iPad and then I remember they've already gotten my ad impressions, so they've gotten everything they want and don't care if I get to read the content.

I don't think those sites get penalized much either. I arrived via search or a link and they don't get demoted in search or have that link removed. I can't flag them as being a bad site or "take back" my view. I find it very frustrating.

Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#74

Post by rezonant »

littlecranky67 wrote: post #58
jtbayly wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to add: - Getting notifications from websites I want notifications from This should not be impossible just because there are 5 trillion websites I don't want notifications from.

The problem is, that you can always "force" the user to allow you notifications or cannot proceed. And $GREEDY_MEGACORP would abuse their power and send you a "verification code" through the push notification, else you cannot process the signup etc. The good thing about the Apple Appstore, that promotional/marketing push notifications are forbidden and will get your App banned from the Appstore. Just allowing generic…

As others point out, promotional pushes are allowed on iOS.

A site can refuse to give you content if you don't allow push notifications but in practice that doesn't happen because the incentive of the site is to have more traffic. Android has had this capability for an eon and I have never experienced a site try to force you to accept push notifications.

I have also never observed a site try to use push notifications as a "verification" method. Do you have an example of this in the wild?

And you can always control your allowance of push notifications after the fact, either at the moment you receive the offending notification or from the site settings. Android specifically has a fantastic way to do this without even leaving your notification area. Not sure how Apple's system works in that regard.

Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#75

Post by ThatPlayer »

HWR_14 wrote: post #57
paulgb wrote: post #3

I'm excited to see support for Web Push. I realize that most people associate it with spammy sites asking for permission to send you notifications you don't want, but I think it hasn't really been given a chance because it lacks iOS support. Some things that it enables: - Low-friction asynchronous turn-based games (think “Words with Friends” but you don't have to install an app) - Single-purpose alerts (like CamelCam…

I don't get push notifications. If I don't have time to poll your service, I don't have time to respond to a notification. Besides, I'd rather not have my priorities determined for me.

That really depends on the service. If it's a messaging app, then I'm not exactly going to poll a service until a new message arrives. Or any other type of app that I'm not checking if there's no updates.

Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#76

Post by modeless »

paulgb wrote: post #3

I'm excited to see support for Web Push. I realize that most people associate it with spammy sites asking for permission to send you notifications you don't want, but I think it hasn't really been given a chance because it lacks iOS support. Some things that it enables: - Low-friction asynchronous turn-based games (think “Words with Friends” but you don't have to install an app) - Single-purpose alerts (like CamelCam…

I hope the prospect of iOS support will prod Google into finally fixing Web Push on Android. It is fundamentally broken right now. Notifications are routinely delayed somewhere between 10 minutes and several hours and there is no workaround. This doesn't really change its effectiveness for spam, but it totally destroys any utility for actually useful applications like messaging or timely alerts. Which is why you have only seen spammers using it so far.

Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#77

Post by TowerTall »

Is these enhancements limited to the safari browser? What about 3rd party ios browsers like chrome and edge? Also why does these 3rd party browsers not have extensions like safari recently got? Is Apple locking all these features down so they are safari only or is it edge/chrome that haven't implemented these features yet?

Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#78

Post by HWR_14 »

ThatPlayer wrote: post #75
HWR_14 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get push notifications. If I don't have time to poll your service, I don't have time to respond to a notification. Besides, I'd rather not have my priorities determined for me.

That really depends on the service. If it's a messaging app, then I'm not exactly going to poll a service until a new message arrives. Or any other type of app that I'm not checking if there's no updates.

I suppose async communication with another person makes sense.

Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#79

Post by tata71 »

rabuse wrote: post #28
merrywhether wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A great heuristic would just be only granting notification prompt permission after you’ve installed the PWA to your Home Screen. That shows clear interest by the user in a longer-term relationship with the app, and they could grant other expanded prompt permissions based on that also.

This will probably be the way it's handled honestly. I think it's the best option.

how it is handled, on modern devices, for years.

Re: Push Notifications, WebXR, and better PWA support coming to iOS

#80

Post by tata71 »

asadlionpk wrote: post #65
judge2020 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given Apple, it'll probably be limited to PWAs on the home screen, aka. only if the user goes to the share sheet and hits "add to home screen", where then it'll pop up the permission for sending notifications.

That would be awesome! But given Apple, they wouldn't want people to circumvent their App Store. Push is probably the biggest reason people still make apps.

They know they're losing the App Store dominance, so they're going with the flow.
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