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People don't work as much as they say

drmaciver.substack.com

71–80 of 313 posts

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#71
The article resonated with my experience as as software developer.

At my first place, a small outsourcing shop, employees were required to log daily activities so hours per day roughly fit to 8 and 40 per week. From the beginning and unlike most of coworkers, I measured my time precisely with https://github.com/Klaster1/timer-5 and soon understood that doing 8 hours per day doesn't happen much and often involves staying late, so instead I simply adjusted the reported numbers to look plausible. In four years, I only received positive feedback on my productivity. What was the management thinking, I have no idea, just like the article says, this was a farce all around.

When I changed the company, the habit to measure productivity stuck. Nowadays, I start working somewhere at 9 and finish at 18, and result is still the same - honest 8 hours of work activity per day happen at best once a month, the average week sums to 30-34 hours. Code-related activities never take more than 3-4 hours per day, that includes both coding and reviews. I get the impression that some of my colleagues might spend more time on the job, but low productivity was never a topic of my performance reviews, management seems content with what they get.

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#72

My view is as a coder if there is real hard work needed, essentially debugging something vexing or a large re-architecting, it needs to be done in an undisturbed 3 hour window, of which I can realistically fit two in a day. Minor coding tasks like documenting and preparing a commit can be done in any amount of time, but crucially it is time that is allowed to be broken up by meals or meetings. Casual skimming over th…

2 3 hour long windows in a day? That’s impressive. Most weeks I can fit one of those in. Workings consultancy is not the best for focus work.

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#73
Work is not work. That’s a single data point. I can mention few cases I experienced: student learning last week for exam. 100 hours week is nothing unusual here. Of course it’s not sustainable and does not take longer than few weeks. PhD student writing paper for most important conference of the year - 80 hours week. Working for your own startup 60 hour a week is imho absolutely normal. These are cases for personal gain. Now let’s talk about salaried jobs when one gets paid for sitting in the office or be green in Teams all day. And that’s the case where 10 hours each week of actual work is absolutely sufficient. I am pretty sure that productive hours are proportional to gain. Why should I do 50 hours a week for the Big Corp when my salary will be exactly the same as after productive 15 hours weekly!? There are individuals, that like what they do, so they enjoy daily tasks and are productive closer to 40 hours weekly. Luckily I know few such people, they are very inspiring.

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#74
People don't understand what to call work, some include all of the dependancies others think those are just free. For me to work 8h means I'm generally working towards some goal, this includes getting a coffee and resting.

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#76
There are definitely people who can work and focus for 8+ hours a day. I can think of my dentist and family doctor. Waiting room is full from morning to evening.

Some of my colleagues work hard. I can see their screen in the open space. They are machines. Never a distraction on the screen.

The article should be "some people don't work so much, I'm one of them".

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#77
Honestly it depends. Work can means a few different things. I doubt a farmer is working less than what he says. When Musk says he works 100h a week, that's probably even less than the reality, he is probably working 7*(24 - 7hour sleep) per week.

Not all work needs 100% focus. When you are CEO and you go in the kitchen and you smalltalk with employees, is it work or not work ? Imagine if the CEO didn't do it, people would say the CEO is not talking with employees.

But if the question is : Do people lie ? Yeah of course, like for any other subject

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#78
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think every service industry worker is laughing their ass off at this post. That is, if they can get past the tears and fury at the injustice of the world that allowed this post to exist.

I don't share your sarcasm. Working with your body and working with your mind aren't that different, it's just that the mind gets tired quicker. It's very hard to be doing concentrated thinking for 6 hours straight.

Exactly, but if it has to be an us vs. them kinda thing, I’d like to throw in: people who’re working with their body at least have the luxury of being able to remove themselfs from work when they get home. Leaving work as a developer, researcher, whatever, means that your stupid brain brings problem home and distracts you when you should spend time with your family.

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#79

I don't think people who say they work 14 hours a day are lying. They just count in everything that is somehow related to their job, like reading about their business in the newspaper or thinking about work in the shower. And that's the crux of the matter, in jobs that don't have clearly assigned shifts or where attendance is measured, the boundaries between work and leisure become blurred. And then again, comparison…

how about i leave for my office 10 Am and return home 9-10-11 pm ? usually no sundays. 10 minute commute each side.

Re: People don't work as much as they say

#80
post #77

Honestly it depends. Work can means a few different things. I doubt a farmer is working less than what he says. When Musk says he works 100h a week, that's probably even less than the reality, he is probably working 7*(24 - 7hour sleep) per week. Not all work needs 100% focus. When you are CEO and you go in the kitchen and you smalltalk with employees, is it work or not work ? Imagine if the CEO didn't do it, people…

How much of that 100+ hours includes surfing the internet and posting memes to Twitter? Not criticizing him, everyone needs time to unwind…
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