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Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#71

Post by chii »

beowulfey wrote: post #37
porcoda wrote: post #18

This sort of began when we all got the impression that software should be free, or that we pay a low price once and get indefinite free upgrades. Given that developers need to be paid, and resources cost money, there needs to be a way to rectify that gap between the consumer and maintainer. At one point we did so by paying for an initial version of software, and then paying for updates. Now that we don’t do that, but…

I would still gladly pay for updates—nobody expected to get updates for free, we always did it that way before. My impression is that the AppStore model, with the updates provided for free (for bug fixes, etc) is what began that shift to subscriptions. Before the App Store, it wasn’t easy to update software, so it was straightforward to lock updates behind paid upgrades.

> nobody expected to get updates for free

if there's a security vulnerability, i'm sure you'd expect the update to be free.

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#72

Post by MerelyMortal »

baxtr wrote: post #39

I think it is fair to complain about user-hostile and scammy companies. However, I strongly believe selling software with a one-time fee was the problem in the first place. An ongoing service requires ongoing efforts to keep it stable, secure and modern. Just like you pay for housing on a monthly, recurring basis. It's the same with software. btw: the oldest subscription models are insurances. No one is complaining a…

A lot of software doesn't have to be a "service", such as Photoshop. Photoshop doesn't need to be connected to the internet and receive constant updates. There was never an issue with Photoshop versions having one-time fees.

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#73

Post by toyg »

coldtea wrote: post #63
porcoda wrote: post #18

This sort of began when we all got the impression that software should be free, or that we pay a low price once and get indefinite free upgrades. Given that developers need to be paid, and resources cost money, there needs to be a way to rectify that gap between the consumer and maintainer. At one point we did so by paying for an initial version of software, and then paying for updates. Now that we don’t do that, but…

> This sort of began when we all got the impression that software should be free, or that we pay a low price once and get indefinite free upgrades. Blame the victim? We din't get any impression, as we don't set the prices. The companies set those prices. For example Adobe customers never got or set any impression that "software should be free/low price". They paid 100s to 1000s of dollars for each update or package r…

Yeah, it's not really about free software; it's about paying salaries. Recurring expenses inevitably result in business models optimized for recurring revenues. That was always the case; it just so happened that the expansion of industrial production of goods was so vast for so long, that this was kinda hidden (and it was hard to justify - there are only so many widgets you can continuously supply to customers).

Now that the internet has removed any friction between business and customer, business is reaching its ideal state: one where the customer pays as long as the business has recurring expenses, where production never stops, and where productivity of labor approaches infinity.

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#75

Post by MerelyMortal »

Kuinox wrote: post #5

> Microsoft has used its dominant position to charge for MS Office in perpetuity You can still buy a definitive, noncloud, without subscription of MS Office, and they still release it (there is a 2021 edition).

Microsoft is still taking away options and raising the price.

For example, I used to buy a non-cloud/non-subscription license through the Home Use Program. It used to be relatively cheap.

Now that option is not available, they only sell a slightly discounted cloud/subscription ($60/year vs $99/year).

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#76

Post by anthropodie »

Three months ago I picked up new hobby: Self Hosting. It has been an amazing ride. I learned a lot and I also get peace of mind knowing I am in control of my data.

I understand that there is no self-hosted alternative for certain SaaS services but I think that will change as more and more people choose to be in control of their data.

This is a good place to start https://old.reddit.com/r/selfhosted

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#77

Post by pards »

fleddr wrote: post #42
porcoda wrote: post #18

This sort of began when we all got the impression that software should be free, or that we pay a low price once and get indefinite free upgrades. Given that developers need to be paid, and resources cost money, there needs to be a way to rectify that gap between the consumer and maintainer. At one point we did so by paying for an initial version of software, and then paying for updates. Now that we don’t do that, but…

Or...updates nobody asked for. Quite a few casual users might be perfectly happy with Office 2003, or Adobe PS6, as anything after that they don't need. And not just that, they may not want the UI to be revamped every 2 months. The option to just have stable, working software is increasingly taken away. Not to mention the anti competitive nature of these two parties. They can just bundle an additional app in their su…

Like https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29983959

Forced updates that remove or disable features people use.

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#78

Post by WesolyKubeczek »

This is not a wholly black and white world, though.

Consider jetbrains: you have a subscription, true, but once you cancel you can still download and use whatever was the latest version released during your paid period. Uou get a perpetual license for it. Seems fair if you accept the fact your IDE no longer “moves fast” along with the ecosystem that seems to have a cult of perpetual churn. Some can afford it, some cannot, but the choice is there.

Consider also the braindead app store model where they expect that you pay $8.99 once for a small app, but all the updates are free after that. How do you fund the continued development and bugfixes? I guess that’s why there are subscriptions to text editors even if they don’t require another account or a cloud.

Or you can create what essentially is the same app under another name, in which case it’s difficult or impossible to have upgrade pricing. And discoverability sucks too.

Gotta survive somehow, or else we cannot have nice things.

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#79

Post by can16358p »

fleddr wrote: post #42
porcoda wrote: post #18

This sort of began when we all got the impression that software should be free, or that we pay a low price once and get indefinite free upgrades. Given that developers need to be paid, and resources cost money, there needs to be a way to rectify that gap between the consumer and maintainer. At one point we did so by paying for an initial version of software, and then paying for updates. Now that we don’t do that, but…

Or...updates nobody asked for. Quite a few casual users might be perfectly happy with Office 2003, or Adobe PS6, as anything after that they don't need. And not just that, they may not want the UI to be revamped every 2 months. The option to just have stable, working software is increasingly taken away. Not to mention the anti competitive nature of these two parties. They can just bundle an additional app in their su…

Reminds me of XD versus Sketch.

Adobe created and added XD (Sketch competitor) and put it into its CC.

Sketch's still doing great but I honestly don't know how long it will be the case as XD becomes more mature.

Re: Tell HN: A Conversation Needs to Be Had over Subscription Software

#80

Post by dt3ft »

Dear Abhinav2000, since you are proposing to get software (which in some cases requires years of work to develop and huge investments up-front) free of charge, do you mind me asking you if you provide software which you developed (over several years) free of charge?
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