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Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

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Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#71

Post by divbzero »

version_five wrote: post #18

If I understand correctly, israel mandates a third shot (to do normal stuff), as do many places in north america, either now or soon. And I can only imagine many people would be happy to mandate a fourth as soon as possible. What I find most frustrating is that politicians are happy to make these mandates live, during an ongoing situation where we actually don't know a lot about how effective things are (and in the c…

In what places or contexts are boosters mandated? As far as I know they aren’t in the US right now.

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#72

Post by andrei_says_ »

threeseed wrote: post #49
version_five wrote: post #18

If I understand correctly, israel mandates a third shot (to do normal stuff), as do many places in north america, either now or soon. And I can only imagine many people would be happy to mandate a fourth as soon as possible. What I find most frustrating is that politicians are happy to make these mandates live, during an ongoing situation where we actually don't know a lot about how effective things are (and in the c…

a) Billions of doses of vaccines have been administered. We know a lot about their effectiveness. b) Current vaccines with a booster are effective at preventing hospitalisations. It is enough to get the world through Omicron but special vaccines maybe useful for those who are immuno-compromised. c) Children have been forced to take vaccines for decades. It's not new. d) People trust their government every day. Who do…

In the US hospitals are private, charge astronomical amounts for the tiniest things and their price lists are secret. It is horrifying, brutal, inhumane.

Also hospitals intentionally understaff, and pay their staff the absolute minimum while paying millions and millions to their CEOs.

In addition to recommending procedures treatments and drugs as profit maximizers.

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#75

Post by Daishiman »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #66
Daishiman wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's how science works: when the facts become updated you update your decisions. Israel has been among the most science-driven governments in Covid policy. I'm not really sure why your "impression" should be mentioned given that you expressly state that you're not a specialist.

I think you are sadly wrong. Corona policy in the early days quickly became inextricably enmeshed in political rivalries, electioneering and knee- jerk reactions. When you say "science driven" i think you really meant "stricter regulations". It is a fatal error to conflate the two.

Yes, there's a lot of baggage left over with a lot of regulations that were made at the beginning and which don't make much sense now. It annoys me. It's not the end of the world, and much in the same way that we had vaccine passports and quarantines throughout history when diseases came and went, once we get over with this I trust we work to get rid of the baggage.

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#76

Post by kittiepryde »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #54
shock-value wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and in the case of the latest variant, we know they are not effective I assume you are talking about stopping spread, which could be accurate. I further assume you are not referring to reducing illness severity, because they obviously are effective at that. But that benefit extends beyond the individual insofar as it reduces strain on the overall healthcare system -- ensuring that even those who have injuries or il…

It's moving the goalpoasts. The reason the vaccine enjoyed so much initial support was because it was supposed to make covid go away. The politicians seem to think even though the reality has changed, support for the vaccine has remained constant.

That's not really how vaccines work. No force fields are deployed, you'll still catch COVID, but, you're immune system is now got some training in how to handle the situation.

I don't remember the promise that, the vaccine would end COVID, I do remember seeing somewhere that if vaccination rates were high enough ( greater than 90%??, been quite awhile now since I read that article ) that herd immunity could be achievable and the spread would eventually end. At least in the US, vaccination rates never even got close.

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#77

Post by [deleted] »

Izkata wrote: post #68
FridayoLeary wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's moving the goalpoasts. The reason the vaccine enjoyed so much initial support was because it was supposed to make covid go away. The politicians seem to think even though the reality has changed, support for the vaccine has remained constant.

> The reason the vaccine enjoyed so much initial support was because it was supposed to make covid go away. Eh, not really. Even that didn't actually come from the vaccine trials; Pfizer and Moderna never tested for infection/transmission, and only made claims on symptoms/disease. Stopping infection/transmission just sorta popped out of politicians/media in early 2021, not actual research - that came a month or two l…

[deleted]

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#78

Post by mandmandam »

twofornone wrote: post #24

Record cases across the planet regardless of vaccination rates...how much longer until official sources are willing to acknowledge that these vaccines are not nearly as effective as claimed? How long before official sources acknowledge that breakthrough cases are probably drastically underreported? I can't be the only one surrounded by fully vaccinated individuals testing positive. Its happening far too often for me…

> how much longer until official sources are willing to acknowledge that these vaccines are not nearly as effective as claimed?

They'll never do that.

They didn't admit they were wrong about masks (they said the lie was for our own good). [0]

They didn't admit they were wrong to say it's not airborne. [1]

They didn't admit that a Wuhan lab leak was not only possible, but likely. [2]

There are other examples to pick and choose from - Pfizer's sneaky contracts [3], [4], their manufacturing concerns [5], women missing periods for months after taking mRNA vaccines [6].

Governments all around have lied about the duration of emergency powers, lied about lockdown lengths, lied about having parties while the rest of us were in lockdown. We've been lied to about vaccine passports, natural immunity, antigen tests, mortality rates, on and on.

And many, many good people have had their careers destroyed for taking principled stands, for telling the truth, for speaking up. Many have been vilified, smeared, threatened with death. Millions of posts were removed from Facebook, Twitter, Reddit [7].

And no, you are not the only one surround by double and triple vaccinated individuals testing positive. Omicron has *32* mutations on its spike protein, so it's not all that surprising. What's surprising is how rabid the "anti-vaxx" hate remains. If anything, it's more intense than ever.

For me, the worst part is that this has all played into the hands of far right extremists. They were happy to scoop up the ground that the left were scared to stand on, and keep growing stronger for it.

[0] - https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fauci-said-masks-not-reall... [1] - https://www.huffpost.com/entry/scientists-react-to-cdc-coron... [2] - https://www.spiked-online.com/2022/01/12/why-did-scientists-... [3] - https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2021/dec/05/wall-of-secr... [4] - https://www.citizen.org/article/pfizers-power/ [5] - https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/pfizer-s-covid-19... [6] - https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/06/health/covid-vaccine-mens... [7] - https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2021/may/27/facebook-...

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#79

Post by [deleted] »

Jimmc414 wrote: post #59

Rochelle Walensky, the CDC director, has stated that vaccines do reduce severity, but they do not stop transmission. Assuming her words represent the scientific and expert opinion, could someone offer a coherent argument as to why there is so much pressure for others to get vaccinated? Is fear of the unvaccinated clogging up hospitals the primary motivation?

[deleted]

Re: Israel Finds Fourth Covid Booster Is Ineffective

#80

Post by Daishiman »

kyrra wrote: post #70
timr wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm sorry but I'm not understanding the logic. The booster was recommended after several rounds of research across multiple countries suggested it was a good idea, with Israel doing some of the first testing and reaching the conclusion that it was worthwhile (and it was, by a substantial margin). You are misinformed. There is a paucity of data supporting boosters, what little exists is for people over 65 (to be fai…

And many (most?) of these policies ignore natural immunity that people are getting from catching COVID.

They do https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid... .
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