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Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

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Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well my experience is that the natural minor is treated as the "default" minor key. For instance, I always understood that A minor was all on white keys. Here is what the Wikipedia page for "A minor" starts with: "A minor is a minor scale based on A, with the pitches A, B, C, D, E, F, and G. Its key signature has no flats and no sharps. Its relative major is C major and is parallel major is A major." Then it goes on…

Well, you are confusing scales and keys, two different things - as is that wikipedia quote - but the point that the key of C major's "relative minor" key, in classical lingo, A minor, with the same key signature, uses the Aeolian, since A to A using the C major notes is Aeolian, is a good one, thanks. [looks at the page] Wow, the scale of "A minor" has a wikipedia page?!..uh no, it seems it's about the key of A minor…

There are differences between scale and key, yes, but they often are interchangeable and overlap. For instance that wikipedia page for A minor doesn't say "A minor scale" nor "A minor key"... you can see they treat it (there and elsewhere) as if they are essentially the same thing in most usages. When necessary they make the distinction.

Another example from Wikipedia, from the "key" page: "In music theory, the key of a piece is the group of pitches, or scale, that forms the basis of a music composition in classical, Western art, and Western pop music."

I don't think Wikipedia is alone in this.

I'll admit I sometimes use the words "scale" (as well as the word "note") when I might have used "key" because it can get ambiguous and confusing given the overlapping meanings (such as a "piano key").

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#72
post #67

I've always been a melodic instrument player and have never had formal theory training - I'm trying to play the piano and I can't figure out how to harmonize (is this the right term?) a melody, this is, how to find or decide which chords go naturally with a specific melodic line. I know there are many alternatives and that the music sheets usually have the matching chords. I want to write my own and I struggle to fin…

Well you’re in luck because I am going to tell you.

1. Identify what key you’re in (I.e what scale you want to use to build the harmonies from) 2. Start with the note you’re looking to harmonize, and play that note and every other note from the scale in step 1. 3. Do some final touch up work:

eg the chord you made in step 2, should probably be inverted to space the notes out more

eg playing a chord for “every” note in your melody will be too much. So choose the chords that work best over all, but you can always add chords back in as passing chords

eg once you’ve plaid the first three notes of the harmonization (root, third, fifth) you can be more liberal with the next notes and leave the pattern I described. So for example you can flatten/sharpen the next note in the sequence, or even play an entirely different note. Having the first 3 notes will ground the chord strong enough harmonically to let you do whatever you want with the rest and still retain the character of the chord. This helps you create more interesting and tense sounds and also let’s you harmonize notes in less traditional ways than before.

I typed this on my phone but I hope that helps. Last thing is just try harmonization of the c major scale. It will sound like you’re playing the scale with “chords”. Then try harmonizing Mary had a little lamb and so on. You can basically play anything by ear once you get a hang of this.

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you are confusing scales and keys, two different things - as is that wikipedia quote - but the point that the key of C major's "relative minor" key, in classical lingo, A minor, with the same key signature, uses the Aeolian, since A to A using the C major notes is Aeolian, is a good one, thanks. [looks at the page] Wow, the scale of "A minor" has a wikipedia page?!..uh no, it seems it's about the key of A minor…

There are differences between scale and key, yes, but they often are interchangeable and overlap. For instance that wikipedia page for A minor doesn't say "A minor scale" nor "A minor key"... you can see they treat it (there and elsewhere) as if they are essentially the same thing in most usages. When necessary they make the distinction. Another example from Wikipedia, from the "key" page: "In music theory, the key o…

Ok thank you! Much appreciated. Interesting topic.

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#75
post #67

I've always been a melodic instrument player and have never had formal theory training - I'm trying to play the piano and I can't figure out how to harmonize (is this the right term?) a melody, this is, how to find or decide which chords go naturally with a specific melodic line. I know there are many alternatives and that the music sheets usually have the matching chords. I want to write my own and I struggle to fin…

> I'm trying to play the piano and I can't figure out how to harmonize (is this the right term?) a melody, this is, how to find or decide which chords go naturally with a specific melodic line

This is a challenging task, almost as hard as composition itself! It's easier if you have a matching baseline to go with the melody, since there are often idiomatic chords that can be played with a given bass note. (Such as the famous "rule of the octave", that has you playing root-position chords on the tonic and dominant, and first inversion chords (i.e. harmonizing with thirds and sixths over the bass) in all other scale degrees.)

Of course you could improvise a baseline for your melody and then harmonize that, but this requires a lot of familiarity with the rules of counterpoint.

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#78
post #67

I've always been a melodic instrument player and have never had formal theory training - I'm trying to play the piano and I can't figure out how to harmonize (is this the right term?) a melody, this is, how to find or decide which chords go naturally with a specific melodic line. I know there are many alternatives and that the music sheets usually have the matching chords. I want to write my own and I struggle to fin…

Take some existing simple melodies that you know (like nursery rhymes and hymn tunes) and try to work out by ear what the chords are. They are probably all chords I, IV, V, and maybe VI of the key. For example, in C major: I is C major, IV is F major, V is G major (often with an added 7th), VI is A minor.

When you think you've got it right, look up the `official' chords in a book or online (be careful online, I've found some hilariously wrong chords for pop songs).

Developing your ear is the most important thing. `Rules' for harmony just summarise what many people have thought sounds good. Theory also provides a language for talking about what the music is doing (whether or not the music is conventional).

Work the other way around too: take a chord progression (whether from an existing song, or of your own creation), and improvise singing a melody over the top. The singing is important because it forces you to just use the natural notes that come into your head against each chord.

Also, investigate different notes against a given chord. While just keeping on playing the same chord, taking each of the twelve chromatic notes in turn, play it over the chord: does it sound `resolved' or `normal', or `unresolved' / `weird' / `tense', if the latter try using it in a melodic phrase between two `normal' sounding notes.

The chord for a given bit of melody often contains most or all of the melody notes. It often contains all of the stronger notes in the melody. A melody note can be `stronger' by being on a strong beat, by lasting longer, by being first or last in a phrase, etc.

Although, in a given key, every chord contains all the notes of the scale. For example, in C major, chord I fully extended is: C (root), E (major third), G (perfect fifth), B (major seventh), D (major ninth), F (perfect eleventh), A (major thirteenth). But that's all the notes of the scale, just organised in a particular way (in scale-wise thirds, starting on C). So any bit of a C major melody contains `only' notes from a (fully extended) C major chord. (Fully extending the C major chord in another key which contains it will give different extended notes, for example, in G major, the C major chord is chord IV and will have F# as the (augmented or sharp) eleventh.)

But each note of the scale has a different `sound' or `meaning' in the context of a given chord. A melody using Cs, Es and Gs over a C major chord will sound `grounded' and `normal'. A melody using Ds, Fs and As over a C major chord will sound `jazzy' or `floaty'. A melody using Cs, Es and Gs over a Bb major chord will sound `jazzy' or `floaty. A melody using Ds, Fs and As over a D minor chord will sound `grounded' and 'normal'.

But you can't look at each part of the melody and a chord for it in isolation. You probably want the chord progression on its own to have some sense to it: to feel like its going somewhere, telling a story, sometimes unsurprising, sometimes surprising.

Different styles of music harmonise their melodies in different ways. A hymn tune, versus a jazz bebop tune, versus a Joni Mitchell song. Within the same style, different harmonisations are possible. E.g. here is Chick Corea reharmonising his own Spain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsQRFgU2fz4 .

Re: Interactive piano reference to major and minor scales

#80

First thing I clicked on was C minor... which showed me "C minor scale". Problem is.. Is that a thing? I've not heard of "the C minor scale". I don't think it's a thing. (Jazz pianist here) In classical piano as a kid I was taught 2 minor scales - melodic (different going up to coming down) and harmonic. Your "minor scale" corresponds to the melodic minor descending, aka Aeolian mode. (i.e. white piano notes from A u…

I think with no modifiers or disclaimers, minor means “natural minor” or aeolian. A few years ago I made a similar site with many more scales and modes than this one: http://www.dbmaj7.com/resources/piano

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