Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How to quit like a boss

jmsbrdy.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 171 posts

Re: How to quit like a boss

#71

Post by ipaddr »

jamesbrady wrote: post #62
BeetleB wrote: post #57

There's a typo in the article's headline. It should read: "How Your Boss Would Like You to Quit" I've always found the sociology of work fascinating, and how it can vary so much from industry to industry. When I read statements like: > Your team trusted you and depended on you. It’s unethical to screw them over because they’re not paying you any more. I wonder what their world view is, and why they think you're screw…

> It should read: "How Your Boss Would Like You to Quit" Touché, yes there's some truth to this. Many of the points in the post were reflections on people leaving my team as I have an order of magnitude more examples of that than me leaving a team. If you're implying there's some kind of zero-sum thing going on here though, I disagree: it can be good for both you and your boss. > I wonder what their world view is… I…

Not having a backup or turnover process in place is a rookie move made by companies that haven't reached a maturity.

Thinking the employee is sabotaging by leaving the company is a sign you don't understand what the role of an employee is. You are not 5 friends hacking together a game and if someone quits because they get a girlfriend you call them a dick. You are a resource that has been purchased and assigned to work on a specific task. The company hopes to leverage something you do into a profit or as support for a business unit.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#72

Post by BeetleB »

medvezhenok wrote: post #59
BeetleB wrote: post #57

There's a typo in the article's headline. It should read: "How Your Boss Would Like You to Quit" I've always found the sociology of work fascinating, and how it can vary so much from industry to industry. When I read statements like: > Your team trusted you and depended on you. It’s unethical to screw them over because they’re not paying you any more. I wonder what their world view is, and why they think you're screw…

Sort of. I think everyone should read "How to win friends and influence people" by Dale Carnegie. I think in any interaction, if you want to maximize your success, you have to approach it from the frame of reference of the person you are talking to. Put yourself in their shoes, and think about what they care about, what they value, and then whatever you want to do, express it to them with reference to their perspecti…

I'm not disagreeing with what you say, but I am having trouble connecting your comment to mine - did you mean to reply to someone else?

> Put yourself in their shoes, and think about what they care about, what they value, and then whatever you want to do, express it to them with reference to their perspective.

Agreed, but applies equally to managers as it does to employees.

> Most fighting and animosity in the world is caused by people talking past each other, not engaging in actual constructive dialogue.

The challenge in doing this is that there is often a great deal of information asymmetry between employees and management. It's quite common for managers not to be completely transparent (and at times, they're not allowed to when it comes to things like compensation). This automatically (and in my opinion, fairly) results in employees withholding information (personal motives, etc) as well. When there is either a power or information asymmetry, you'll find that usually the one who has the more power/information has to put in more effort to win the trust of the other.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#73

Post by lelandfe »

jamesbrady wrote: post #45
lelandfe wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> in many environments even hinting that you're looking to leave will... greatly increase the urgency of your search Just to provide a single anecdote of this, my friend worked as a recruiter at a well known company. If higher ups got proof that you had applied to another job, you would be terminated day of and whisked out of the office by security. The stories from him and his coworkers of the subterfuge involved in…

Was this a tech company? I just tightened up the intro explaining whom this post is meant for, and assumed that high-demand industries would be pretty immune to this kind of insanity

This was a recruiting firm that would call itself a tech company. I doubt they treated engineers the exact way, but I heard similar stuff from data folks that worked there.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#75

Post by passerby1 »

GianFabien wrote: post #54

Based on my experience not giving too much notice is good advice. In one job, I gave a months notice to leave for a startup. Just before I left, some extra urgent work came in and I was retained for a couple of months as a contractor to avoid leaving a key client and my former employer in a lurch. It actually benefitted the startup that I was able to incrementally transition.

How did you postpone the next employment?

Re: How to quit like a boss

#76

Post by delgaudm »

oramit wrote: post #65

This post is filled with bad and naive advice. I have thankfully worked in mostly rational companies and been able to be honest with managers about what is or isn't working. At my last job though I spent more than a year saying repeatedly that I wasn't happy with my project work and that I wanted more pay. Annual review rolls around and they didn't fix it. I had a new job offer in a month and when I put in my notice…

Could not agree more. The company is not, can not, and will not ever be loyal to you. Ever. They will fire you, lay you off, relieve you of duty instantly for any reason or no reason at all. They've lobbied for laws to do exactly that (in the US anyway).

And they will keep information asymmetrical in their favor. No. Matter. What. In the long run they will be dishonest with you, they will lie to your face, and they will keep you in the dark. You won't know plans until they want you to know plans. They have to. It's the only way it works.

You, as the employee, need to play the same game in the same way. Defensively. Know that you can keep information from them. Know you should only give information that is beneficial to you. Never self- sabotage. Never be weak. Business is a ruthless competitive game, and that includes employee to manager. You have no obligation to be honest in an exit interview. If it sucked horribly, leave with a smile and say it was great. Make it so they'll give you a great recommendation for your next gig. Lie to them like they lie to you. Bluff. Play chess, play poker.

You don't have to care one whit about leaving your teammates with more work. Does the company give one shit about laying you off a week before Christmas with zero notice? No. They don't give a care at all about the disarray this causes for your life. Ultimately you are a cog, and disposable. You are not "the most valuable resource". You must be as ruthless with them as they are with you. It's the only way it works.

Sure, this sounds super cyncial, you can absolutely do this and not be a dick. You don't have to be a dick at all, just think strategically, and know that you are the only one looking out for you, and you don't owe anyone anything.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#77

Post by BeetleB »

jamesbrady wrote: post #62
BeetleB wrote: post #57

There's a typo in the article's headline. It should read: "How Your Boss Would Like You to Quit" I've always found the sociology of work fascinating, and how it can vary so much from industry to industry. When I read statements like: > Your team trusted you and depended on you. It’s unethical to screw them over because they’re not paying you any more. I wonder what their world view is, and why they think you're screw…

> It should read: "How Your Boss Would Like You to Quit" Touché, yes there's some truth to this. Many of the points in the post were reflections on people leaving my team as I have an order of magnitude more examples of that than me leaving a team. If you're implying there's some kind of zero-sum thing going on here though, I disagree: it can be good for both you and your boss. > I wonder what their world view is… I…

> Ah, no – this is in the "Don’t sabotage, it’s a dick move" section: it's sabotage which is unethical.

I guess the source of the confusion is that you didn't specify what the sabotage actually is. I mean, deleting all your code before leaving is sabotage. Leaving without notice isn't. What did you have in mind when you wrote that?

> I don't quite follow this paragraph, could you rephrase?

I was highlighting a bunch of beliefs some people have:

- The notion that you should have loyalty to the team beyond your last paycheck.

- The notion that it is you being disloyal to the team, as opposed to management being disloyal to the team.

- The general framing that by lumping people into a team, that there is a single shared goal. A lot of people come to work to get paid, and they do it by providing value. Two people in the same team are allowed to have very different goals. One may care much more deeply about the mission than the other, etc.

- That much of the article places the burden on the employee leaving compared to on the management.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#78

Post by briHass »

paxys wrote: post #7

I don't get this advice. At least in tech it is understood that everyone has their eye open for the next big opportunity. If one comes along, I'm not going to hesitate to take it. It doesn't have to mean that there's a problem in my current role that I need to address with my manager. Sometimes you simply know that it is time to leave and try something new. If my current company is "surprised" by my decision and unpr…

Totally agree. I've found that the process of interviewing tends to shift my mindset, and I'm not really interested in staying, even if they match my pay.

I just left a role. I wasn't really unhappy, I just hit a tenure that was long enough that it was time to go. 4-5 years if you're senior++ level is about right. I read the employee handbook, which asked for 2 weeks, and that's what I gave. I worked hard to transition and document everything I could. Never said anything bad about the company (I really didn't have anything to say), and I complemented and thanked my bosses.

Keep it classy, respectful, and professional - that's how a true boss quits.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#79

Post by solarmist »

karmakaze wrote: post #52
yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #5

Eh... kind of? Like, I don't disagree that there are reasonable points here, but: > Quitting should never be a surprise for your boss > What’s the worst that can happen? Not a total surprise, but in many environments even hinting that you're looking to leave will... greatly increase the urgency of your search. They might not terminate you outright (or they may), but it's gonna make the rest of your time there a lot l…

I once gave clear indications that I was considering joining a startup in hopes that the company could start looking for my replacement. I wasn't treated any differently and carried on as usual until I gave my notice. Much later, after the startup failed I learned that those months of knowing that I'd likely be leaving and there was little they could do about it was a very terrible time for the higher up dev vp/cto/w…

Why was it a terrible time for them? The only thing that comes to mind is that there's an "open slot on the team," but it can't be filled because they're still there.

Re: How to quit like a boss

#80

Post by froaway4job »

I think it's really cool that this particular employee had a great quitting experience.

However, this is the worst advice I have ever read. Good experiences should not be translated into advice. Your employer is not your friend. You may be lucky enough to have friends who share the same employer, but at the end of the day you are employed by a business, treat it accordingly.

Here's how I handle quitting in a remote world (as a cold hearted jerk/machine, aka a business). I give my two weeks notice, and start my new job the same day I give notice. I effectively have no real work to do the last two weeks at my current job, and have a nice relaxed onboarding at my new job. At the end of the two weeks I collect two paychecks. Rinse and repeat every 1-2 years to collect a 30-40% raise.

Post reply on HN