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The Drenching Richness of Andrei Tarkovsky

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Re: The Drenching Richness of Andrei Tarkovsky

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elimination of feelings is not a desired outcome and if extreme can be classed a disorder such and depression, dissociative disorder or psychopathy. I found Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) and Dialectic Behavior Therapy (DBT and Wise Mind) very helpful in dealing with troublesome emotions and then Zen which, as you say, is about not letting them control your behavior or your thoughts but calmly observing them come…

Feelings, for the most part, are intertwined with thoughts. This is what makes CBT and its ilk so valuable. For example... I'm feeling panicked because I've been given a new manager. I think the new manager may not see the value of my role. Turns out, the new manager is impressed with my experience and has heard good things about me from others. They believe me to be an important asset to the team. My feeling of pani…

In CBT worksheet terms it would look like this:

Automatic Thought Record

When you notice your mood getting worse, ask yourself, "What's going through my mind right now?" As soon as possible, fill in the table below.

Situation:

I've been given a new manager

Automatic Thoughts:

I think the new manager may not see the value of my role

Emotions:

I'm feeling panicked

Adaptive Response:

What thinking styles did you engage in? Disqualifying the Positive, Jumping to Conclusions, Emotional Reasoning, Magnification. See OLDJEMMAPS.

Outcome:

Turns out, the new manager is impressed with my experience and has heard good things about me from others. They believe me to be an important asset to the team

OLDJEMMAPS acronym:

Over-generalization: Make a comprehensive, negative conclusion that is beyond the current situation.

"I failed the cognitive psychology exam. I'm not working with a psychotherapist."

Labeling and Mis-labeling: The extreme form of overgeneralization. Use fixed, comprehensive, and emotional language to label yourself or others.

"I am an idiot." "He is a bad guy."

Disqualifying the Positive: Unreasonably believe that positive experiences, behaviors or qualities do not count.

"I did a good job on that project, but it doesn't show that I am capable, it's just a fluke."

Jumping to Conclusions: Making a conclusion before having all the evidence.

"I see a cloud on the horizon. I'm bringing my umbrella because it's going to rain"

Mind-reading: in the absence of evidence, thinking that other people's reactions to you must be negative.

"He must think I can't do the job on this subject."

Emotional Reasoning: Draw conclusions from your own feelings, because what I think is what the facts are.

"I think I am like an idiot, so I must be an idiot."

Mental Filter (selective summary, partial generalization). Only pay attention to a certain negative detail, without seeing the whole picture.

"Because of the low scores in several items in my clinical internship evaluation, my clinical internship is over"

Magnification/Minimization: enlarge/reduce. When evaluating oneself, others, or a situation, unreasonably exaggerate the negative aspects and narrow the positive aspects.

"Getting a moderate evaluation shows how incapable I am. Getting a good score does not show that I am smart."

All or Nothing Thinking: (also known as black or white thinking). You can only look at two extremes, but you cannot see a continuum band.

"If I can't do everything well, I'm an incompetent person."

Personalization: Others treat you badly because you have problems without considering other possibilities.

"That colleague is very unkind to me. I must have offended her in some way."

Should and Must statements: There is a precise, fixed expectation of one's own or other people's behavior, and if the behavior does not meet the expectation, it is too serious or bad.

"That person should have said hello to me. They didn't so they must be irritated with me"

Re: The Drenching Richness of Andrei Tarkovsky

#72

I don't think his work travels particularly well in the West. It is steeped in symbolism, deep metaphysics and calm, meditative, photography. All attributes that have been essentially banned from the fast food production/consumption chain that has conditioned audiences. Its a bit like pop music. If all you've ever heard is (basic) western harmony and suddenly get exposed to some weird oriental stuff it does not even…

> It is steeped in symbolism, deep metaphysics and calm, meditative, photography. All attributes that have been essentially banned from the fast food production/consumption chain that has conditioned audiences. Whoa... this is a bold claim. I can think of western films that use techniques like this: 2001: A Space Odyssey, Thin Red Line, Breathless, anything by Bergman, and The Royal Tenenbaums, for example, and many…

Not GP, but I think by "fast food production/consumption chain that has conditioned audiences" they are taking a potshot at the swathe of superhero movies being very formulaic rather than any West vs. Soviet Russia argument and how only Soviet Russia makes meaningful films.

For example, every superhero gets 30s of screentime and a few sarcastic quips. The story is black and white, because you know who the good guys and bad guys are. The dominance of franchise movies has vastly restricted the opportunities for other kinds of films to be seen in cinemas. In his essay [1], Martin Scorcese makes a much better case for it than I can, but the gist of it is that while before there were high-brow and low-brow films, now Hollywood is taking the cynical approach that the low-brow films make the most money in a low risk way rather than art for art's sake.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/11/04/opinion/martin-scorsese-m...

Re: The Drenching Richness of Andrei Tarkovsky

#73
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You say that even though Tarkovsky is absolutely worshipped by Western film fans?

Sure, cinephiles, but most people in the US haven't heard of Tarkovsky. Even fairly educated people I've suggested a Tarkovsky film to will give me a blank expression and say "who?"

His name is better known across the former USSR, but I really doubt his viewership is any broader.

Re: The Drenching Richness of Andrei Tarkovsky

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who thinks they can analyse consciousness into more fundamental elements? About half of HN, who think that we will be able to manufacture some form of AGI that should have the right to be treated as the equal of humans.

A person who thinks that animals are nothing more than colonies of abnormally cooperative eukaryotes may still dislike animal cruelty on the basis that anyone who is capable of it would be capable of cruelty to humans, or that practicing one prepares you for the other. I imagine the same argument could be made to apply to robots, even if you wanted to sidestep the machine consciousness question. P.S. this argument is…

I feel like your comment is entirely gibberish. In the real world, nobody mistakes autism for intelligence.

Re: The Drenching Richness of Andrei Tarkovsky

#75
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who thinks they can analyse consciousness into more fundamental elements? About half of HN, who think that we will be able to manufacture some form of AGI that should have the right to be treated as the equal of humans.

I pre-commit to supporting AI and automaton rights. I am an ethical vegetarian.

I consider people with that mindset to be an enemy of humanity. And I love animals. Some of them are cute, and some of them are delicious.

Re: The Drenching Richness of Andrei Tarkovsky

#76
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, cinephiles, but most people in the US haven't heard of Tarkovsky. Even fairly educated people I've suggested a Tarkovsky film to will give me a blank expression and say "who?"

His name is better known across the former USSR, but I really doubt his viewership is any broader.

I was introduced to Tarkovsky by a Russian co-worker in the late 90s. She said that during the soviet times Tarkovsky movies were only allowed to be seen by the elites (her family fell into that category) and were thus not widely viewed then.

Re: The Drenching Richness of Andrei Tarkovsky

#77

I don't think his work travels particularly well in the West. It is steeped in symbolism, deep metaphysics and calm, meditative, photography. All attributes that have been essentially banned from the fast food production/consumption chain that has conditioned audiences. Its a bit like pop music. If all you've ever heard is (basic) western harmony and suddenly get exposed to some weird oriental stuff it does not even…

> It is steeped in symbolism, deep metaphysics and calm, meditative, photography. All attributes that have been essentially banned from the fast food production/consumption chain that has conditioned audiences. Whoa... this is a bold claim. I can think of western films that use techniques like this: 2001: A Space Odyssey, Thin Red Line, Breathless, anything by Bergman, and The Royal Tenenbaums, for example, and many…

There are ofcourse both filmmakers and films in the West that explore similar domains. And I generally love them (for the same reason I love Tarkovsky's work).

But when I check what audiences say about said work (and even well known art critics) in 99% of the cases I am left with the impression they live in an another planet. The analogies, metaphors and other symbolism fail to trigger recognition of the "multiple levels" involved and thus also to elicit the emotional response that follows from linking to our current realities.

It is almost as an old story appreciation ability has been lost...

Re: The Drenching Richness of Andrei Tarkovsky

#78
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I pre-commit to supporting AI and automaton rights. I am an ethical vegetarian.

I consider people with that mindset to be an enemy of humanity. And I love animals. Some of them are cute, and some of them are delicious.

That's a personal failure of empathy. Any reasoning beyond need is a rationalization. Humans can survive without killing animals.

Nice try though.

Re: The Drenching Richness of Andrei Tarkovsky

#79
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I consider people with that mindset to be an enemy of humanity. And I love animals. Some of them are cute, and some of them are delicious.

That's a personal failure of empathy. Any reasoning beyond need is a rationalization. Humans can survive without killing animals. Nice try though.

Billions of people all around the planet both love some animals, and eat others. They are the majority and your view is in the minority. Do you consider all of them to have a personal failure in this regard too? Nice attempt to try and single someone out personally though.

Re: The Drenching Richness of Andrei Tarkovsky

#80

I don't think his work travels particularly well in the West. It is steeped in symbolism, deep metaphysics and calm, meditative, photography. All attributes that have been essentially banned from the fast food production/consumption chain that has conditioned audiences. Its a bit like pop music. If all you've ever heard is (basic) western harmony and suddenly get exposed to some weird oriental stuff it does not even…

By "West", do you mean the US ? He's always been extremely popular with cinephiles in Western Europe. If anything, he's closer to Dreyer than Eisenstein (which is hinted at in the article) and fits well in the lineage of European film-makers.
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