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The Darker Side of Aaron Swartz (2013)

newyorker.com

71–80 of 175 posts

Re: The Darker Side of Aaron Swartz (2013)

#71
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he was facing 13 felony charges and up to 50 years in prison[0] Pretty hard slap, that. [0] https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/why-did-...

The article says they offered a 6 month jail time plea bargain though. It sounds like from his own writing that he was cognizant of the fact he broke the law, but didn’t agree the law should have been a law in the first place. It also sounds like he didn’t really expect there would be any consequences whatsoever. Look at this from the prosecutors point of view. They have hard evidence of a crime. They have evidence o…

> 6 months does not sound like the disproportionate punishment many make it out to be

From the article, it seems that he was concerned about how being a convicted felon would hurt his career prospects. It would reduce his likelihood of being able to save the world. Not that he would have, anyway, but I think that's part of the thought process.

Speaking for me personally, six months in federal prison would feel like an almost life-ending scenario. I'd lose my job (obviously) and would have trouble finding another in the field for which I'm educated and trained. My fiancee would not have sufficient income to pay our mortgage so we'd lose our house, and I'm not sure what we'd be able to do for the many pets we love dearly. My situation's much different from Swartz's but I can empathize that a six month sentence could have such dramatic consequences that it wouldn't feel like a slap on the wrist.

Re: The Darker Side of Aaron Swartz (2013)

#72
post #25

Some of his writing in this reminds me a lot of David Foster Wallace (who is mentioned), in particular the way he is deeply concerned with seeming humble but feeling egotistical: self-consciously projecting humility but being aware of the humility as a kind of affectation in a recursive and tortuous cycle of self-awareness.

I relate to this so much. The very odd “aggrandizing” that is so often necessary for starting and running a company, coupled with my massive impostor syndrome that is just never going to go away at this point, is a very very hard cognitive dissonance to manage. I’ve done it, and will do it again, but it makes me squirm on the inside.

Re: The Darker Side of Aaron Swartz (2013)

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking about the famous wealthy upper class and status people with your example? Not sure if you genuinely believe justice is blind. Something that has never been true.

> Are you talking about the famous wealthy upper class and status people with your example? As opposed to a wealthy, well-connected Harvard research fellow and entrepreneur who stems from an upper class family?

Yes. Unless this family is absurdly rich like hundreds of millions. If that’s true I am wrong. Otherwise, the wealthier American icon is still different enough where a [direct] comparison does not work.

Re: The Darker Side of Aaron Swartz (2013)

#74
post #47
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Persecution? He broke the law and was likely to get a slap on the wrist.

> he was facing 13 felony charges and up to 50 years in prison[0] Pretty hard slap, that. [0] https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/why-did-...

He faced nothing resembling 50 years, even on paper, even in the least charitable plausible analysis. You get to these nosebleed sentences by assuming that there are no sentencing guidelines, and no grouping of charges, and that instead you're likely to serve the sum of the maximum sentences spelled out in the statutes you violated. That makes no sense even as a story: the CFAA statutes capture behavior ranging from abusing a login you were given legally to snoop on your coworkers performance evaluations to coordinating a multinational multi-billion-dollar heist by penetrating financial services firms.

What actually happens in sentencing is that you look up the relevant sentencing guidelines in the (public, easily downloaded) federal sentencing guidelines. The guidelines are broken up by groups of statutes. They establish offense levels, from 1 (jaywalking) to 43 (mass murder). You take the offense level and look it up on a chart against your offender history (Swartz had no criminal history) and get a sentencing range.

Each guideline starts with a (usually low) base offense level, and then a series of clauses that adjust that level upwards or downwards based on the conduct charged. For CFAA, modifiers include stuff like using sophisticated means to evade detection, or making a bunch of money, or putting critical systems in danger.

The actual sentencing is a phase of the trial, occurring after conviction. The court has the probation office write a PSR, which is a confidential memo suggesting a sentence based on the guidelines. The prosecution argues for upwards departures for the PSR; the defense does the opposite; the judge ultimately decides.

Crucially: the sentencing guidelines generally don't work by multiplying the number of counts against the suggested offense level. Rather: like charges group, and you're generally sentenced based on the highest offense level of the group.

We don't really have to guess about what Swartz faced. We don't just have this New Yorker article to go on; Swartz's own attorney discussed the likely sentencing ranges. This article suggests that prosecutors were looking for 6 months on a guilty plea (they seemed hell-bent on coming up with some custodial sentence for Swartz; there seems to be something to the idea that they had a grudge against Swartz). More importantly, though, we have some of their rationale for the supposed 80 month sentence they said they'd seek if Swartz went to trial: they intended to argue that Swartz incurred 2 million dollars worth of losses. That's a self-evidently stupid argument, because there's no plausible way Swartz could have recouped even $1 from his offense, let alone $2,000,000. The documents he hoped to release had virtually no commercial value. Any damage (ie: worker hours burned cleaning up for what he did) he caused was incidental, and likely well below six figures. But the guideline offense level modifier implies the opposite of this fact pattern.

Swartz's attorney believed it was likely that had Swartz gone to trial and lost on all counts, his ultimate sentence would still could have come in below the level at which the guidelines recommend straight probation; that is: he believed Swartz could have gone to trial, lost, and still did better than the plea deal offered by the prosecutors.

It's not really the fault of anyone on HN that these lurid potential sentences get tossed around in discussions, because federal prosecutors issue press releases that discuss the maximum possible sentence in those terms. The media abets that dishonesty by repeating the claim, or by doing insufficient homework and using the same math.

You should be irritated when you read written sources that talk about naive maximum sentences this way.

At any rate: there is no chance Swartz was unaware of any of this. Not just because he had an excellent attorney who no doubt explained all of this stuff very early on in the process, but because Swartz was exactly the kind of nerd who would have had the federal sentencing guidelines bookmarked somewhere in his browser.

Re: The Darker Side of Aaron Swartz (2013)

#75
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you talking about the famous wealthy upper class and status people with your example? Not sure if you genuinely believe justice is blind. Something that has never been true.

Blind to what? He was guilty. White boys don’t do hard time for hiding in the closet to copy the library’s computer. The judge appears to be a conservative old navy man. I haven’t dealt with him, but I think I’ve been in front of the type. Trial would go something like this: On the morning of day 3, so before the second day of testimony, the judge calls the attorneys into chambers and lays into them, sometimes loud e…

> the judge calls the attorneys into chambers and lays into them, sometimes loud enough for half the courthouse to hear, for wasting everyone’s time on such a stupid case,

You're basically writing fan fiction here. There's no evidence this would have been the case, and frankly I rather doubt it. There's nothing to suggest the judge would have reacted this way, nor that Swartz should have anticipated that he would.

Re: The Darker Side of Aaron Swartz (2013)

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The statement is made by the prosecutor though. They could be saying the truth. It is a very biased person’s word to go off though.

What statement? You mean they could have been lying about the plea deal?

If I recall the prosecutor’s future political ambitions got derailed because of this. That makes it even more likely to not believe anything they are saying without more to go on.

So yes. Not just the plea deal and not just this case. In any situation, if the only evidence of something is the word of the state prosecutor, that only means so much.

Re: The Darker Side of Aaron Swartz (2013)

#77

"His girlfriend Taren always dealt with taxi-drivers, with waitresses." "The guy in front of me’s leaning all the way back, but I’m in the last row so my seat doesn’t go back, and I have to lift my legs up to stretch out a muscle that was sitting funny while I was asleep" I feel like Aaron Swartz was never truly an adult, just a boyish intellectual. I can't imagine his submissive behavior was a net positive to his me…

I’m not diagnosing, obviously, but a lot of this, including the phobia of fruit and non-white and yellow vegetables seems… on the spectrum, at the very least. I wonder if Aaron had undiagnosed autism of some sort.

Re: The Darker Side of Aaron Swartz (2013)

#78
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blind to what? He was guilty. White boys don’t do hard time for hiding in the closet to copy the library’s computer. The judge appears to be a conservative old navy man. I haven’t dealt with him, but I think I’ve been in front of the type. Trial would go something like this: On the morning of day 3, so before the second day of testimony, the judge calls the attorneys into chambers and lays into them, sometimes loud e…

> the judge calls the attorneys into chambers and lays into them, sometimes loud enough for half the courthouse to hear, for wasting everyone’s time on such a stupid case, You're basically writing fan fiction here. There's no evidence this would have been the case, and frankly I rather doubt it. There's nothing to suggest the judge would have reacted this way, nor that Swartz should have anticipated that he would.

I wasn’t sure how to respond to the last paragraph. You worded it correctly

Re: The Darker Side of Aaron Swartz (2013)

#79

"His girlfriend Taren always dealt with taxi-drivers, with waitresses." "The guy in front of me’s leaning all the way back, but I’m in the last row so my seat doesn’t go back, and I have to lift my legs up to stretch out a muscle that was sitting funny while I was asleep" I feel like Aaron Swartz was never truly an adult, just a boyish intellectual. I can't imagine his submissive behavior was a net positive to his me…

So what? Why do you need to conform to a socially constructed persona?

Re: The Darker Side of Aaron Swartz (2013)

#80
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he was facing 13 felony charges and up to 50 years in prison[0] Pretty hard slap, that. [0] https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/why-did-...

The article says they offered a 6 month jail time plea bargain though. It sounds like from his own writing that he was cognizant of the fact he broke the law, but didn’t agree the law should have been a law in the first place. It also sounds like he didn’t really expect there would be any consequences whatsoever. Look at this from the prosecutors point of view. They have hard evidence of a crime. They have evidence o…

> It’s a waste of everyone’s time and money.

Isn't incarcerating a person who's not a danger to others and who's crime had no harmful outcomes a waste of everyone's time and money?

> 6 months does not sound like the disproportionate punishment many make it out to be

I encourage you to learn about the conditions in prisons. Imprisoned persons are frequently subject to physical and sexual violence at the hands of guards and other incarcerated people. These are inhumane conditions to subject anyone to, mass murderer and copyright-infringer alike.

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