Challenging ‘rule breakers’ – children will confront their peers • Hacker News Board

Re: Challenging ‘rule breakers’ – children will confront their peers

#71

Post by mhh__ » Wed, Dec 29, 2021, 2:45 AM UTC

WalterBright wrote: post #59

sandworm101 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In modern schools, most any deviation from prescribed behavior is considered "rule breaking". A kid playing a game they way they want to play it, rather than the way they were taught to play it, is a disruptive kid that needs correction by peers or authority figures.

When Flight Simulator came out, my first thought was to see what would happen when you crashed the airplane. People would actually get upset as I would try to crash it. These were adults! They'd get so into the game they were afraid of crashing the imaginary airplane. (It was a bit disappointing, it would only freeze the screen and draw a crack across it!)

If someone crashes out of curiosity what happens then I think that's cool, but I have had someone deliberately crash it as a way of annoying me which I found quite rude (i.e. the equivalent of pretending to be illiterate in response to being suggested a book to read).

DCS (a military flight simulator) does have damage models for the aircraft - (especially in VR) getting your wing shot off is very fun

Re: Challenging ‘rule breakers’ – children will confront their peers

#72

Post by tharkun__ » Wed, Dec 29, 2021, 5:07 AM UTC

wccrawford wrote: post #23

mherdeg wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen this! When the toddler plays an iPad game he likes to start by "failing" (choosing the wrong option, deliberately crashing a toy car, doing nothing at all) and watching what happens. It looks to me like he's basically experimenting - trying things and watching what happens. I generally just let him try and fail (and discuss what happened with him) and after about 1-2 minutes he tries the "right" thing becau…

I have this problem, and it takes concerted effort for me not to "fix" those situations. Even though I know they're better off if they figure it out themselves, my desire to "help" people is very hard to overcome. I use quotes around those words because I know that what I'm doing is not actually those things in many cases, and they'd actually be better off if I waited for them to ask for help.

This, so much this. Happens all the time both w/ the kids and at work. I've had to learn this one in both places and one helps the other.

I still find it easier at work. I find it's easier to distract myself w/ just answering some slack messages from someone else while 'looking interested' on the video call w/ someone while they figure something out after I gave them a hint. It was so much harder while at the office though and it still is so much harder w/ the kids.

How do you make yourself wait? I still haven't figured out why sometimes I can wait for them to figure it out and sometimes I can't.

Re: Challenging ‘rule breakers’ – children will confront their peers

#73

Post by helge9210 » Wed, Dec 29, 2021, 7:47 AM UTC

Both kids in a pair play according to "correct" rules. Just different.

So the possible outcomes are:

- observer forces his version of rules

- observer fail to force his version of rules

- player is forced to abandon the game

- observer is forced to abandon the game

- both observer and player voluntary decide to abandon the game

- both figure out they were given different "correct" set of rules, so they pick one of the sets or come up with a new one

Re: Challenging ‘rule breakers’ – children will confront their peers

#74

Post by wccrawford » Wed, Dec 29, 2021, 11:10 AM UTC

tharkun__ wrote: post #72

wccrawford wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have this problem, and it takes concerted effort for me not to "fix" those situations. Even though I know they're better off if they figure it out themselves, my desire to "help" people is very hard to overcome. I use quotes around those words because I know that what I'm doing is not actually those things in many cases, and they'd actually be better off if I waited for them to ask for help.

This, so much this. Happens all the time both w/ the kids and at work. I've had to learn this one in both places and one helps the other. I still find it easier at work. I find it's easier to distract myself w/ just answering some slack messages from someone else while 'looking interested' on the video call w/ someone while they figure something out after I gave them a hint. It was so much harder while at the office…

How do I wait? Hmmm... Poorly. Like I said, it's a struggle. But I think in the end I remind myself what's better for them.

I think it also helps to think of myself in that situation, and what I'd want. I do not want people to take a puzzle from me. I'd much rather work at it until I'm frustrated, and I will actually lash out verbally if people try to solve it for me. So remembering that helps. But it's hard to remember that because most people actually seem to not like puzzles, and seem like they would rather just have the solution.

At work, I just give hints most of the time, and try not to actually spend any of my time on it beyond that. Things like, "I'm pretty sure there's a function that does something similar already. It's probably in the XY component?" and leave it at that until they fail to find it. But if it's a fun problem, I still fail at that.