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E.O. Wilson has died

reuters.com

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Re: E.O. Wilson has died

#71

Post by wanderingmind »

Theizestooke wrote: post #20
wombatmobile wrote: post #18

"If all mankind were to disappear, the world would regenerate back to the rich state of equilibrium that existed ten thousand years ago. If insects were to vanish, the environment would collapse into chaos." — Edward O. Wilson

Both scenarios would cause upheaval, and I'm not sure what he means by a "rich state of equilibrium".

A modern day equivalent of this rich state of equilibrium can be observed in Chernobyl. The place was decimated by nuclear radiation a few decades ago. Initially it was believed that the place never support any large life forms for many centuries. However wild life is currently thriving in Chernobyl including large mammals and birds [0].

[0] https://cosmosmagazine.com/earth/sustainability/chernobyl-is...

Re: E.O. Wilson has died

#72

Post by sunstone »

pdonis wrote: post #67
sunstone wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not surprisingly Wilson's comment of "Great idea, wrong species." was about communism for which it was very apt (communism doesn't scale for humans), not socialism. Socialism works well in more than a few very successful countries around the world.

> Not surprisingly Wilson's comment of "Great idea, wrong species." was about communism for which it was very apt (communism doesn't scale for humans), not socialism. Wilson specifically used the term "socialism". The full quote is given here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._O._Wilson#The_Ants,_1990

The quote is,"Wilson said in reference to ants "Karl Marx was right, socialism works, it is just that he had the wrong species". Which seems a bit odd as Karl Marx was a communist and not a socialist, as far as I know. It's unlikely that Wilson was confused about this two terms so I expect it's just and honest mistake that's been continually repeated with out any one going back to the origininal sources.

Re: E.O. Wilson has died

#73

Post by ced »

pdonis wrote: post #67
sunstone wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not surprisingly Wilson's comment of "Great idea, wrong species." was about communism for which it was very apt (communism doesn't scale for humans), not socialism. Socialism works well in more than a few very successful countries around the world.

> Not surprisingly Wilson's comment of "Great idea, wrong species." was about communism for which it was very apt (communism doesn't scale for humans), not socialism. Wilson specifically used the term "socialism". The full quote is given here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._O._Wilson#The_Ants,_1990

"Karl Marx was right, socialism works, it is just that he had the wrong species"

It seems that what Marx called socialism is basically communism.

By 1888, Marxists employed socialism in place of communism as the latter had come to be considered an old-fashioned synonym for socialism. It was not until after the Bolshevik Revolution that socialism was appropriated by Vladimir Lenin to mean a stage between capitalism and communism.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism

Re: E.O. Wilson has died

#74

Post by dennis_jeeves »

api wrote: post #44
dexwell wrote: post #3

"The real problem of humanity is the following: we have paleolithic emotions, medieval institutions, and god-like technology" — E. O. Wilson, 2009

The cyberpunks were by far the most prophetic of all science fiction writers, and I feel like this kind of insight is what drove that. They put forward a future where they were optimistic about technology and neutral to pessimistic about human beings.

No post body was provided.

Re: E.O. Wilson has died

#75

Post by Konohamaru »

the__alchemist wrote: post #17

Legend. Ants. Bees. Learning. The essence of science. He came up in casual conversation yesterday, re science and learning math, as well as how tough learning math can be once you're older. (He famously attempted to learn calculus in his 30s, and had a struggle, despite already being a Harvard professor, and world-class scientist)

Math is a struggle for everyone. When the Egyptian ruler Ptolemy I asked whether geometry could not be made easier, Euclid is said to have replied: 'There is no royal road to geometry'.

Re: E.O. Wilson has died

#76

Post by mindcrime »

Jugurtha wrote: post #32

E.O. Wilson comes up when you get into the "actor model"[0], especially with this quote: > “A colony of ants is more than just an aggregate of insects that are living together. One ant is no ant.” Many publications and articles on the topic of actors reference it at some point. - [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actor_model

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stigmergy

Re: E.O. Wilson has died

#77

Post by BitwiseFool »

dwt204 wrote: post #39

Evolutionary biologists are divided on his work. His own research and published works have been used by racists for example to readily explain the social origins of intelligence, poverty, crime, and violence regarding POC. He never actively fought against such tendencies, even though he was aware that he had become the darling of white nationalists, and even fascists globally. I believe that ALL "traits" can be expla…

>Among Wilson's most controversial works was 1975's "Sociobiology: The New Synthesis" in which he wrote that all human behavior was a product of genetic predetermination, not learned experiences. By coming out in favor of human nature over nurture, he set off a firestorm of criticism, with his harshest opponents accusing him of being racist and sexist.

>"I believe that ALL "traits" can be explained by social environment rather than by biology."

Now I can definitely understand the controversy of taking the position that all human behavior is a product of genetic determination, but the polar opposite that all human behavior is explained socially/with learned behavior to be just as wrong. I know it's not particularly insightful to admit that it is a combination of both, though.

Re: E.O. Wilson has died

#78

Post by pdonis »

sunstone wrote: post #72
pdonis wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not surprisingly Wilson's comment of "Great idea, wrong species." was about communism for which it was very apt (communism doesn't scale for humans), not socialism. Wilson specifically used the term "socialism". The full quote is given here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._O._Wilson#The_Ants,_1990

The quote is,"Wilson said in reference to ants "Karl Marx was right, socialism works, it is just that he had the wrong species". Which seems a bit odd as Karl Marx was a communist and not a socialist, as far as I know. It's unlikely that Wilson was confused about this two terms so I expect it's just and honest mistake that's been continually repeated with out any one going back to the origininal sources.

> Which seems a bit odd as Karl Marx was a communist and not a socialist, as far as I know.

The two terms were more or less synonymous when Marx wrote. Later ideologues have attempted to differentiate them; whether or not they have succeeded is a matter of opinion.

Re: E.O. Wilson has died

#79

Post by pdonis »

ced wrote: post #73
pdonis wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not surprisingly Wilson's comment of "Great idea, wrong species." was about communism for which it was very apt (communism doesn't scale for humans), not socialism. Wilson specifically used the term "socialism". The full quote is given here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._O._Wilson#The_Ants,_1990

"Karl Marx was right, socialism works, it is just that he had the wrong species" It seems that what Marx called socialism is basically communism. By 1888, Marxists employed socialism in place of communism as the latter had come to be considered an old-fashioned synonym for socialism. It was not until after the Bolshevik Revolution that socialism was appropriated by Vladimir Lenin to mean a stage between capitalism an…

> It seems that what Marx called socialism is basically communism.

Many people (including me) would say that there isn't any meaningful difference between the two, whether we are talking about Marx's time or any time since. I don't know whether Wilson thought there was any meaningful difference between the two; as far as I know nobody asked him.

Re: E.O. Wilson has died

#80

Post by BitwiseFool »

yucky wrote: post #43
dwt204 wrote: post #39

Evolutionary biologists are divided on his work. His own research and published works have been used by racists for example to readily explain the social origins of intelligence, poverty, crime, and violence regarding POC. He never actively fought against such tendencies, even though he was aware that he had become the darling of white nationalists, and even fascists globally. I believe that ALL "traits" can be expla…

>I believe that ALL "traits" can be explained by social environment rather than by biology. That probably "feels right" to say, but is it backed up with data? DNA is a real thing, not a social construct.

I have a sense this is not actually true, but we want it to be true because it aligns with our modern day morality and ethical code. If we accept the premise that all traits are a result of a social environment rather than a genetic basis, does this only apply to human beings? Other mammals which are not particularly social end up exhibiting traits they never seem to have learned. Both humans and animals exhibit some traits with near universal consistency. How would we explain such a dramatic difference between how species express traits?
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