What unemployment? Nothing like that in United States of Software • Hacker News Board

Re: What unemployment? Nothing like that in United States of Software

#71

Post by stevenwei » Tue, Sep 06, 2011, 8:32 PM UTC

bartonfink wrote: post #18

ootachi wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we really at the point where engineers can't find jobs because they only know C++ instead of Python and Ruby web stacks? This is a bit concerning, if so.

It happens. I used to work with a guy whose expertise was Java GUI development and who knew NOTHING about web stacks at all. He's been looking for work, and kept getting told that it was a big problem that he didn't know anything about web development. Someone even told him in an interview that he was getting dangerously close to the "point of no return" where his skills were so stale that he'd be unemployable anywhe…

True, but the best engineers are the ones that can adapt to new skillsets quickly.

For example, I'm willing to bet that 99% of the most successful iOS developers had not written a line of Objective-C until 3 years ago. Apple simply provided an opportunity and they embraced it, learning the skills they need to adapt.

Re: What unemployment? Nothing like that in United States of Software

#72

Post by patio11 » Tue, Sep 06, 2011, 9:31 PM UTC

Locke1689 wrote: post #70

patio11 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If X is repeatedly cheaper than what it should be, you should buy it instead of selling it. Anyhow, if I'm reading you right, you think that the best college grad in 2019 will be about as good as you are in 2019, causing your salary to decrease? If I'm reading that right, you will have a very interesting eight years in industry and not worry about new college graduates ever again. Generic career advice for every engi…

Ah, sorry poor wording. What I mean is that a developer's skill increases non-linearly with experience. That is, there is a sharp spike after only a few years of working in industry. I won't argue that skill doesn't continue to increase with experience, but I think the difference between my skill in 9 years may be proportionally lower than the skill difference now and in, say, 2 years. However, employers generally se…

Oh, if that's what you're worried about, a) you're right, employers routinely exploit wage anchoring of employees already on the payroll, b) I don't know if I agree that devs slow down in growth after two years, and c) regardless of whether they do or not, quit and demand wages commensurate with the value you bring to the company.

I used to work for $30k prior to discovering that there exist better options. Now I try to be the little Internet fairy whispering to young devs "There are better options!" ;)

Re: What unemployment? Nothing like that in United States of Software

#73

Post by jholman » Tue, Sep 06, 2011, 9:53 PM UTC

bartonfink wrote: post #18

ootachi wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are we really at the point where engineers can't find jobs because they only know C++ instead of Python and Ruby web stacks? This is a bit concerning, if so.

It happens. I used to work with a guy whose expertise was Java GUI development and who knew NOTHING about web stacks at all. He's been looking for work, and kept getting told that it was a big problem that he didn't know anything about web development. Someone even told him in an interview that he was getting dangerously close to the "point of no return" where his skills were so stale that he'd be unemployable anywhe…

Web stack replacing "Java GUI" is no big surprise, and totally dissimilar to the great-grandparent comment that implied that there might be a shortage of low-level C jobs. Python and Ruby have not eaten C/C++'s lunch, as far as I know (well, maybe snacked on it a bit). OSes, browsers, games, embedded... still seems to be lots of call for C/C++. Java GUI was never in that class, so it's not at all surprising to see it obsolesce.

Re: What unemployment? Nothing like that in United States of Software

#74

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 3:48 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #67

serge2k wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Semester of statistics required for mine. Of course they have since dropped the stats requirement. And the calc 2 requirement. So now it's a semester of calculus and a semester of linear algebra. I guess too many people failed calculus 2 and stats.

People fail stat and pass linear algebra?!

[deleted]

Re: What unemployment? Nothing like that in United States of Software

#75

Post by rmc » Wed, Sep 07, 2011, 11:25 AM UTC

tptacek wrote: post #51

Locke1689 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope so, but the problem I see is that new grads (I include myself here) are willing to work for 80k, while it's not that much of a stretch to say that the best graduates will be almost as productive in a few years as they will be in 7 or 8 years. That doesn't, however, automatically mean a commensurate salary increase, so developer salaries are kept perpetually lower than they should be. How can employers and empl…

In 1994, when I first entered the job market, $80k/year was a ridiculous number, reserved for people with unattainable-sounding skills like "PowerBuilder". Point being: look at the trend line, not the spot price. New grads today will accept $80k. Five years from now, if the market retains this level of heat, will they continue to do so?

Software is more important (and valuable) to the world now than in 1994.