Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation • Hacker News Board

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#71

Post by carom » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 6:48 AM UTC

neonbjb wrote: post #55

baron816 wrote: post #18

This isn’t exactly great news, but it’s probably not as bad as you think. It means that inflation is a tractable problem. The Fed as a lot of tools at its disposal (first of which is to take its foot off the gas). If we were in a situation where workers were demanding higher wages because they were expecting prices to go up, and businesses were raising prices to pay workers who were demanding higher wages, then we’d…

This is wrong IMO - the fed has NO tools in its hands. Its last tool was inflation rates, and it burned that during the great recession. It is now caught in a pickle: raise interest rates, causing a mass exodus of wealth from securities to savings accounts and CDs and causing the stock market to tumble (like it arguably always should have done since 2008), or let inflation take its course. I am not an economist, and…

Inflation isn't bad, it is part of the interest rate cycle. You cut rates until you can't then you use inflation.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#72

Post by skywal_l » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 6:49 AM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #67

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want a raise the best thing you can do is find a new job. Note that this doesn't always even involve taking it. Go get a job offer that pays better and bring it to your boss. If they want to match it, great. If they don't, bye.

From the other side, whenever a member of my team has come to me asking to match an offer I've always refused and wished them well in their new role. If someone is unhappy enough to start job hunting rather than talking to me then it's a clear sign that they'll leave soon regardless of any pay rise. Psychologically, every pay increase makes someone happy for a short time, and then they get used to it and they start t…

And when someone come to you asking for a raise, how often do you give it?

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#73

Post by fuuuuux » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 6:49 AM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #67

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want a raise the best thing you can do is find a new job. Note that this doesn't always even involve taking it. Go get a job offer that pays better and bring it to your boss. If they want to match it, great. If they don't, bye.

From the other side, whenever a member of my team has come to me asking to match an offer I've always refused and wished them well in their new role. If someone is unhappy enough to start job hunting rather than talking to me then it's a clear sign that they'll leave soon regardless of any pay rise. Psychologically, every pay increase makes someone happy for a short time, and then they get used to it and they start t…

Sounds like they're better off leaving, if that's your attitude.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#74

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 6:49 AM UTC

paxys wrote: post #28

ralph84 wrote: post #11

It never does. This is just accelerating the pandemic-era wealth transfer that started with the rich getting trillions to prop up their assets while everyone else got $600.

> It never does Except in 10 of the last 12 years, as you can clearly see in the same chart

[deleted]

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#75

Post by aeternum » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 6:50 AM UTC

missedthecue wrote: post #16

MattGaiser wrote: post #10

There is this 40% or so of the population that will not switch jobs. I don't know why you would ever give them a raise because as their reaction to it is just going be to complain and go back to work.

It's worth noting that switching jobs for pay raises is mainly a white collar thing. If you work in trucking for instance, where productivity is capped, worker differentiation is minimal (meaning two different truckers perform essentially identical work unlike engineers or salespeople), and where industry margins are thin, you'll top out relatively quickly. After that, switching companies isn't going to do all that m…

This mindset seems common but is far from the truth. Even with blue-collar jobs pay varies widely especially now. Employers want you to think everyone pays the same and you can't do better elsewhere.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#76

Post by landemva » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 6:52 AM UTC

baron816 wrote: post #18

This isn’t exactly great news, but it’s probably not as bad as you think. It means that inflation is a tractable problem. The Fed as a lot of tools at its disposal (first of which is to take its foot off the gas). If we were in a situation where workers were demanding higher wages because they were expecting prices to go up, and businesses were raising prices to pay workers who were demanding higher wages, then we’d…

'The Fed as a lot of tools at its disposal...'

Average and poor Americans would be better off with a simple formula to set money expansion. Then fire the private 'Federal Reserve' banksters and let someone else have the contract to clear checks.

It is long past time to end the 3rd central bank.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#77

Post by simonh » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 6:52 AM UTC

missedthecue wrote: post #12

gnu8 wrote: post #7

It is largely because of the power imbalance between capital and labor. Capital sets the prices of goods and also sets the price it pays for labor. The solution is strong and broad based labor unions, but capital has labor convinced that it is against their interest to organize. I hope this boils over and we start hanging capital from the street lights.

Why does the US, a society with low union membership rates have much higher median salaries both before and after taxes and government benefits than in Europe where there are lots of powerful unions? https://data.oecd.org/hha/household-disposable-income.htm

Medians don’t tell the whole story. Incomes for high wage earners in the US have increased disproportionately compared to European countries, while wages for middle and low income groups stagnated in comparison.

The value of benefits isn’t takin into account. Health care is a huge driver of inequality in the US. Tens of millions of you get minimal health care, and even many on health care plans only qualify for a fraction of the treatments Europeans take for granted. Education is another example. Overall the US system is fine, but the funding model is appallingly uneven with the majority of public funds ending up going to schools in wealthy areas. The national funding and provision models in Europe are far more egalitarian and, as with health care, much more efficient.

Even so, there’s still a legitimate gap in the US favour here. That can’t be denied. Arguably what Europeans get in return is peace of mind and a society that has their back. They know that whatever happens to them, they will get decent health care, their kids will get a decent education, and they’re more likely to get fair treatment from their employer.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#78

Post by selestify » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 6:53 AM UTC

whydid wrote: post #70

silisili wrote: post #58

As someone who does OK, but lives in reality (not the bay area), I feel a revolution coming. I hope it's not a violent one, but who knows at this point. Hopefully it's just a politician with big policy changes. People feel completely disenfranchised. You keep hanging housing over their head but just out of reach like some baby toy, then inflation spikes everything else. What's the point of working even? I don't know…

This is why I love to study history, you can almost predict the future by studying the past. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution

Past Performance Is Not Indicative Of Future Results. You see many of the same trends in history, yes, but also many surprises. History repeats itself, the second time as farce.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#79

Post by Grimburger » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 6:53 AM UTC

ralph84 wrote: post #11

It never does. This is just accelerating the pandemic-era wealth transfer that started with the rich getting trillions to prop up their assets while everyone else got $600.

I've worked for a few companies where all staff had their salary increase by CPI each year, you could negotiate a better base rate sure, but the accepted principle in agreements was inline with inflation. Maybe it's just an Australian thing.

Whether you believe CPI is an accurate representation of cost for the average person is another matter altogether.

Re: Worker pay isn’t keeping up with inflation

#80

Post by lordnacho » Fri, Dec 17, 2021, 6:53 AM UTC

onion2k wrote: post #67

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want a raise the best thing you can do is find a new job. Note that this doesn't always even involve taking it. Go get a job offer that pays better and bring it to your boss. If they want to match it, great. If they don't, bye.

From the other side, whenever a member of my team has come to me asking to match an offer I've always refused and wished them well in their new role. If someone is unhappy enough to start job hunting rather than talking to me then it's a clear sign that they'll leave soon regardless of any pay rise. Psychologically, every pay increase makes someone happy for a short time, and then they get used to it and they start t…

Depending on the situation, it might make sense to keep them for that extra year. There's a lot of specialist roles where you're really dependent on some particular person and it's nice to have a year to find a replacement.