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Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

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Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#71

Post by ohgodplsno »

GeekyBear wrote: post #48
ohgodplsno wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such as a high end Ryzen, which eats the M1 for breakfast ? Sure.

The M1 chips that have been released certainly can't compete on core count against desktop chips with Zen 3 cores, but compared to the laptop versions of Ryzen, the M1 is absolutely not being eaten for breakfast. >The chips here aren’t only able to outclass any competitor laptop design, but also competes against the best desktop systems out there, you’d have to bring out server-class hardware to get ahead of the M1 M…

This article is one of the few anandtech articles which is just straight up wrong and/or incomplete on many points, notably only comparing to (relatively) old desktop chips. A 5900HX (released in January) scores 50% higher on multithreading on cinebench, and equal on single threaded tests like Geekbench. A 5900HX is available on laptops that start at $2500, unlike the $4000 that a macbook pro would run you.

So, really, what this is saying is that a brand new, constructor specific 5nm SoC that is tailor made with a CPU/memory quasi-direct link is about equal to a year and a half old 7nm CPU, while being twice as expensive. As much as the Apple fanboys can scream about pOwEr EfFiCciEnCy!1, making up a $1500 difference just in electricity costs is going to be hard. Battery life doesn't matter, just plug your damn laptop, it's throttling itself if it's not plugged in anyways.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#72

Post by mhh__ »

retskrad wrote: post #7

Alder Lake, Intel's flagship dekstop class CPU, is only 10-15% faster than the M1 Pro/M1 Max in CPU performance but it requires an insane amount of cooling and the power consumption is frankly ridiculous. Seems like Apple Silion will be 5 years ahead of the competition - similar to how long it took for others to catch up with the first iPhone.

Maybe not 5 but it is years ahead in terms of process.

Also Alder Lake is actually pretty normal in terms of power usage on actual workloads, almost no one is running AVX stress tests. The power draw is basically a symptom of intel massively pushing it past the efficiency frontier, undervolting is the new overclock thanks to massive stock OC

In most gaming benchmarks alder Lake is basically the same or less than Zen 3 in terms of power, last time I looked.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#73

Post by marmaduke »

retskrad wrote: post #7

Alder Lake, Intel's flagship dekstop class CPU, is only 10-15% faster than the M1 Pro/M1 Max in CPU performance but it requires an insane amount of cooling and the power consumption is frankly ridiculous. Seems like Apple Silion will be 5 years ahead of the competition - similar to how long it took for others to catch up with the first iPhone.

Memory bandwidth is still 76 GB/s. One reason I’m moving science workloads to M1 is for the cache line size and memory bandwidth, which bump by factor 2-3x the speed.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#74

Post by nicoburns »

Jcowell wrote: post #62
5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see Apple users all around me. I also live in a country where $500/month is considered a decent salary. It's the power of their very competent marketing department and nothing else; otherwise you wouldn't see so many iPhone users who spent three months of their total income for the privilege of owning this "status symbol".

Why does it matter if your spending three mo the of your total income when you can (and should)?pay it off monthly ?

Err... because paying it off monthly doesn't make it any cheaper. And it still ends up being a sizeable chunk of your total purchasing power.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#75

Post by nicoburns »

ohgodplsno wrote: post #71
GeekyBear wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The M1 chips that have been released certainly can't compete on core count against desktop chips with Zen 3 cores, but compared to the laptop versions of Ryzen, the M1 is absolutely not being eaten for breakfast. >The chips here aren’t only able to outclass any competitor laptop design, but also competes against the best desktop systems out there, you’d have to bring out server-class hardware to get ahead of the M1 M…

This article is one of the few anandtech articles which is just straight up wrong and/or incomplete on many points, notably only comparing to (relatively) old desktop chips. A 5900HX (released in January) scores 50% higher on multithreading on cinebench, and equal on single threaded tests like Geekbench. A 5900HX is available on laptops that start at $2500, unlike the $4000 that a macbook pro would run you. So, reall…

> A 5900HX is available on laptops that start at $2500, unlike the $4000 that a macbook pro would run you.

Confused. The MacBook Pro is also available from $2500.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#76

Post by peoplefromibiza »

boplicity wrote: post #46
peoplefromibiza wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

power users come and go. general population don't need macs, a $ 200 smartphone is more than enough for the majority who would spend 1.500 euros (in Europe) for a laptop that has a limit of 16gb of RAM? only people with lots of money to waste.

> who would spend 1.500 euros (in Europe) for a laptop that has a limit of 16gb of RAM? Let's say you use a laptop for 6 hours a day, five days a week, 48 weeks a year, and that it lasts for 3 years. That's 4,320 hours of usage. For many people, it's worth paying 35 cents per hour to use a machine that's even just a little bit better than one that costs half that. I'm writing this on a high-end Macbook Pro that's 8 y…

> For many people, it's worth paying 35 cents per hour to use a machine that's even just a little bit better than one that costs half that

That's my point.

Some people would.

Quoting myself

people with lots of money to waste.

Does that mean that Apple is Winning over the power users (that) generally precedes larger adoption?

Absolutely not.

Anyway: spending less for the same output is better than spending more for the same output. At least make it scale linearly.

Apple HW doesn't equal double productivity, hence double price is not a price that will appeal general population, but only **some people**

It's not a critique against Apple M1, only to the assumption that a good enough CPU will make wonders on the market.

It won't.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#77

Post by 5e92cb50239222b »

Jcowell wrote: post #62
5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see Apple users all around me. I also live in a country where $500/month is considered a decent salary. It's the power of their very competent marketing department and nothing else; otherwise you wouldn't see so many iPhone users who spent three months of their total income for the privilege of owning this "status symbol".

Why does it matter if your spending three mo the of your total income when you can (and should)?pay it off monthly ?

I have no idea how much you're making (and no desire to know), but for the sake of the argument let's say it's $6k a month. Try to extrapolate our reality to your own. Would you go around with a phone that cost $18k? Would you even buy one, monthly installments or not (and then get the next one right after it comes out, like many iPhone users here tend to do)?

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#78

Post by dagw »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #67
dagw wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that I can find the performance I need for half the price. But only sacrificing something else, like screen, battery life and/or build quality. I bought a M1 Pro, not primarily because of its performance, but because it was the cheapest way to get the performance I wanted without sacrificing battery life or build quality in a hardware/software package I could trust to Just Work out of the box.

What do you sacrifice if you get e.g. an Asus ROG Strix G15 ? It is benchmarking pretty close to the M1 Pro, and you can get it for around $1800.

Weight and real world battery life would be two things. Almost certainly build quality. The screen almost certainly isn't as nice. Even if the overall 'macro' bench marks are the same, it almost certainly won't beat the Macbook in day to day 'micro benchmarks' I care about like time to open a new terminal, time to run npm install, time to wake when I open the lid, time from login to watching Netflix, time to search the hard drive for file etc. etc. If I need 'real' performance I'll use a chunky Ryzen/Threadripper desktop computer running Linux over any laptop on the market.

Also I just don't trust Windows laptops to go to sleep properly when I shut the lid. With both high end Dell and Lenovo laptops I've on more than one occasion pulled out a scorching hot laptop with a dead battery out of my bag. Never had a Mac do that. It may be a small thing, but I'm willing to pay a pretty decent premium to never have that happen again.

Plus there's the fact that something almost certainly won't just work if I try to install a *nix based operating system on it.

edit: Oh yea another big one, with the Mac I get a trackpad good enough that I don't feel the need to carry a mouse.

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#79

Post by swiftcoder »

semi-extrinsic wrote: post #67
dagw wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is that I can find the performance I need for half the price. But only sacrificing something else, like screen, battery life and/or build quality. I bought a M1 Pro, not primarily because of its performance, but because it was the cheapest way to get the performance I wanted without sacrificing battery life or build quality in a hardware/software package I could trust to Just Work out of the box.

What do you sacrifice if you get e.g. an Asus ROG Strix G15 ? It is benchmarking pretty close to the M1 Pro, and you can get it for around $1800.

> What do you sacrifice if you get e.g. an Asus ROG Strix G15?

A beautiful high-resolution display and half a day's battery life, primarily. Also the ROG Strix trackpads are truly awful, but YMMV on that front

Re: Asahi Linux for M1 Macs Progress October-November 2021

#80

Post by nopenopenopeno »

gigatexal wrote: post #66
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect you'll get downvoted into oblivion for your PoV by the pro-Apple HN crowd and even though I do agree with you to some extent on the the high pricing (a basic M1 MacBook is half my NET take home pay as a dev in Europe, and double my rent costs) but value is subjective to most people, and for most, buying into the Apple ecosystem the value the ecosystem brings to their lives is justified, otherwise they would…

Yes they're expensive. But how many HP/Dell/Lenovo etc laptops do you have from 2013 that still run like new? My 2013 MacBook Pro with an i7 and 16GB of ram still screams. The trackpad works, no keys fail, the screen is still good being retina. The amount of money paid divided by how long it has lasted me makes it a ~300 USD computer!* *if replaced every year ... or a 900 usd computer if replaced every 3 years.

And you can no longer install the latest macOs, and linux still has battery/sleep problems with it. I know. I have the same one. Truly incredible hardware. I wish I wasn’t forced to replace it.
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