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Kropotkin escapes from prison

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Re: Kropotkin escapes from prison

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those wondering, Kropotkin was a Russian anarchist philosopher. He’s most famous for “The Conquest of Bread”.

He was also a biologist, countering Darwin by stating there is as much (or more) cooporation in nature as there is conflict https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_Aid:_A_Factor_of_Evol...

He went further, arguing that mutual aid is the practice/axiom that enabled most societies (human or otherwise) to survive and evolve thus far.

Re: Kropotkin escapes from prison

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which has even less to do with communism though.

Communism != Marxism.

In principle i agree, yet there is a distinction to make. There are anti-authoritarian marxists who argue that by the end of his life Marx himself had become critical of his own theories (eg. dictatorship of the proletariat).

But yes, we'll agree that the most widely-known brand of marxism is in fact the very opposite of communism (as defined by a Stateless/classless society).

Re: Kropotkin escapes from prison

#73

That was great. While in jail I only had two serious opportunities to escape. The first an unscheduled incoming call from an embassy official meant I was brought to a secure area to use a special phone. It was right by the sally port [0] which normally has at least one door closed. Both were open. I could have run directly out to the street. The guards do not carry their guns inside the jail. The second was on a run…

Surely even if they had guns, murdering you is not an appropriate response to a possible escape?

It's America though

Re: Kropotkin escapes from prison

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those wondering, Kropotkin was a Russian anarchist philosopher. He’s most famous for “The Conquest of Bread”.

He was also a biologist, countering Darwin by stating there is as much (or more) cooporation in nature as there is conflict https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutual_Aid:_A_Factor_of_Evol...

He countered social Darwinism, not Darwin (don’t think Darwin fell for these fallacies).

Re: Kropotkin escapes from prison

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

a 1% escape rate seems egregious

Wouldn’t it be less than 0.2%? It parsed to me as less than 1 out of 100 out of those who have the opportunity via work release or other community integration initiatives.

Once you're in open prison/work release etc you're usually both at the tail end of your sentence and enjoying much better conditions than you were earlier, both of which are major disincentives to risking resetting the clock.

Re: Kropotkin escapes from prison

#77

That was great. While in jail I only had two serious opportunities to escape. The first an unscheduled incoming call from an embassy official meant I was brought to a secure area to use a special phone. It was right by the sally port [0] which normally has at least one door closed. Both were open. I could have run directly out to the street. The guards do not carry their guns inside the jail. The second was on a run…

Surely even if they had guns, murdering you is not an appropriate response to a possible escape?

Depends on the jurisdiction, but at least where I live, yes, preventing escape from imprisonment is explicitly listed as a legally permitted reason for officials (both prison guards and police) to shoot someone.

In general (but not always, not in e.g. armed escape) there is a requirement of warning, giving a chance to surrender without violence, but if they refuse to surrender, the society has decided that it is acceptable to shoot to kill. It's not murder (murder being unlawful killing), it's enforcement of the designated proper punishment (staying imprisoned for a certain time) by the threat of death. The death penalty isn't appropriate for most (or even any) crimes, other penalties are, and they are free to take (and expected to take) those other penalties and avoid the risk of death - however, if they intentionally refuse the appropriate punishment (prison sentence) and try to escape, that is their own choice of putting their life on the line.

Re: Kropotkin escapes from prison

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on how dangerous the criminal is. For a serial killer? Yeah, it might be.

Even a "suspected" serial killer isn't a serial killer until convicted and jailed as such (innocent until proven guilty) if they had access to the street to try and make their getaway.

If they are escaping prison, that presumes they have been convicted.

Re: Kropotkin escapes from prison

#80
post #50

That was great. While in jail I only had two serious opportunities to escape. The first an unscheduled incoming call from an embassy official meant I was brought to a secure area to use a special phone. It was right by the sally port [0] which normally has at least one door closed. Both were open. I could have run directly out to the street. The guards do not carry their guns inside the jail. The second was on a run…

As far as I know in the country where I live non violent criminals are treated much more leniently. They have “vacations” where they can go back to their families for holidays like Christmas and special events. If they do run away they’ll get a much bigger sentence, so people just return so they can get it over with.

In America too, they frequently let the convicts go to their mother's funerals.
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