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WhatsApp Launches Instant Cryptocurrency Payments in the US

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Re: WhatsApp Launches Instant Cryptocurrency Payments in the US

#71

Post by TomSwirly »

ItsBob wrote: post #16
arcatech wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would you give FB of all companies the benefit of the doubt?

I'm trying to be a bit more positive these days given all the negativity surrounding us but I'm under no illusion that FB's raison d'etre is data-gathering and advertising at all costs, even to the detriment human life. I get it. I also don't use social media at all so I'm not their customer. It's a long-shot, I know but I thought I'd chuck it out there. I wanted to find out if there is a potential genuine benefit to…

> I'm trying to be a bit more positive these days given all the negativity surrounding us

Which negativity has been brought to us by Facebook...

Re: WhatsApp Launches Instant Cryptocurrency Payments in the US

#72

Post by RL_Quine »

RL_Quine wrote: post #68
fragmede wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> zero expectation that this is something users want, or will use. Facebook Messenger already has this feature using fiat, Apple lets you send money via iMessage, Telegram already has this feature. Seems like adding payments is staying competitive with features other messaging utilities has. It might also be a money grab, but something can be two things at once.

Payments in yet another currency is not useful. Apple letting you send payments in iMessage makes sense, MobileCoin in signal absolutely does not. What do you do with them once you have MobileCoins? You have to exchange them, potentially at some wildly varying exchange rate, rather than what Apple is offering which is just USD. Apple's solution not something I would use but it makes some sense given the relative diff…

We can look at the interface for MobileCoin in Signal to get an idea of how bad this is. We're prompted to "add funds" by sending MobileCoin, and the "learn more" button leads to an article telling you to buy a "supported currency" (only MobileCoin) on some exchange. So it's fundamentally useless unless you are already into the cryptocurrency speculation sphere, in which case you almost certainly have something better to use that MobileCoin.

https://a.uguu.se/BWssrjlJ.jpeg

Remember the Signal PIN which is used for recovery of your account? It now lets you recover all of your money too, so that's going to be a great target for spear phishing attacks. That feature got a lot of pushback because nobody could really work out what it was supposed to be adding to the software, turns out, useless cryptocurrency.

https://a.uguu.se/YOGwpUcQ.jpeg

Re: WhatsApp Launches Instant Cryptocurrency Payments in the US

#73

Post by leephillips »

TomSwirly wrote: post #66
leephillips wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Times’ style guide would render more than one compact disc as C.D.s (no apostrophe, but with periods in intialisms). Do you have a link to any authoritative style guide that suggested “C.D.’s”? The Times' guide (2015) demands apostrophes to pluralize single letters: “the word has two t’s”. I think that’s silly, just as their use of quotation marks rather than italics for book titles. Here is a quote from the 2015…

The Chicago Manual of Style IIRC has this, also perhaps Strunk and White, and apparently the NY Times in 2010: https://afterdeadline.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/04/13/faqs-on-s...

Hmm. Either the Time’s guide is inconsistent or they changed their rules between 2010 and 2015.

You’re correct about Chicago (you do RC); at least my 1969 copy.

My 1959 Strunk and White doesn’t seem to have anything about this, but it also doesn’t have an index, so maybe it’s in there somewhere.

Re: WhatsApp Launches Instant Cryptocurrency Payments in the US

#74

Post by Vespasian »

MuffinFlavored wrote: post #54
exdsq wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One issue with Libra was Facebook. FB has the user numbers and money to roll out a potentially successful cryptocurrency that's marketed as a currency. Regulators got scared and it got critiqued/shut down across almost every market.

why would a successful cryptocurrency scare regulators? bitcoin is "successful". coinbase and popular wallets are "regulated" (reported to IRS, etc.)

Facebook controlling what is equivalent to a central bank is scaring regulators. No one wants Mark in charge of the money supply.

Partnering with a project that isn't Facebook helps with that (at least a little bit)

Re: WhatsApp Launches Instant Cryptocurrency Payments in the US

#75

Post by tmalsburg2 »

codethief wrote: post #40

When Signal integrated MobileCoin last year (in the UK), there was a lot of uproar here on HN – some well-founded ("Why equip a slick and lightweight standalone app for privacy-preserving messaging with payments, a feature that adds bloat and will likely attract government regulation and oversight?"), some less so ("The Signal developers are just scamming everyone"). Given WhatsApp's move toward a WeChat-like app now…

You’re sneaking in the presupposition that the market dictates support for crypto payments. But isn’t that a complete fantasy?

Re: WhatsApp Launches Instant Cryptocurrency Payments in the US

#76

Post by BbzzbB »

vmception wrote: post #47
reginold wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Novi site for the Whatsapp partnership says this: > "When you add money to your Novi account, we convert it to USDP (Pax Dollar), a stable digital currency issued by Paxos Trust Company, a regulated financial institution. USDP is designed to have a stable value relative to the US dollar. So on Novi, 1 USDP is equal to 1 US dollar." To me that implies it's done on chain...I guess it could just be in their centrali…

Protip: this is how Tether works but people in the west dont want to believe that people in the east actually deposit fiat into bitfinex. Multiple US regulators came to the same conclusion. One regulator said “well you usually create tethers 1:1 in response to deposits the vast majority of times and vast majority of amounts, but for the brief few times you didnt at least put a disclaimer up, also here is a fine for n…

Here's one blatantly noticeable difference that makes me more trustful of USDP than USDT even without being informed about Pax : total USDP in circulation ("market cap") went down nearly 50% when Bitcoin and cryptos crashed in May-June [0], as you would expect if they indeed offer an off-ramp to USD as people will be bailing out in downturns and if the coin is pegged to cash flows.

USDT? Up and up, it has not once significantly went down [1]. Do people truly believe that they are pegged to treasury and money flows to Bitfinex (despite knowing it is BS) and that they've never been in a significant out-flow period? (Edit: There is one I notice in October 2018 of also nearly 50% from $2.8B, much later than the actual 2017-18 crash. Doesn't take away from the peculiarity of the rest of the chart, but gotta point it out in fairness.)

Anyone with significant money in crypto should be terrified by these sketchy money printers (the irony) rather than complacent of. If and when something like Tether blows up, these are dozens of billions in liquidity that will go poof over night.

[0]: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/paxos-standard/ (click market cap)

[1]: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/tether/

Re: WhatsApp Launches Instant Cryptocurrency Payments in the US

#77

Post by RL_Quine »

monocasa wrote: post #69
codethief wrote: post #40

When Signal integrated MobileCoin last year (in the UK), there was a lot of uproar here on HN – some well-founded ("Why equip a slick and lightweight standalone app for privacy-preserving messaging with payments, a feature that adds bloat and will likely attract government regulation and oversight?"), some less so ("The Signal developers are just scamming everyone"). Given WhatsApp's move toward a WeChat-like app now…

I thought the point of Signal was not go follow every dark pattern of the other apps looking to monetize their userbase. Zuckerberg thinking it's a good idea doesn't help Signal here, because Signal has a different mission than Zuckerberg.

They lasted a couple of years before selling out, which is unfortunately not that impressive.

Re: WhatsApp Launches Instant Cryptocurrency Payments in the US

#78

Post by panarky »

jd115 wrote: post #36
panarky wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because Russia is a mafia state doesn't mean they're behind Facebook's payments initiatives. To make this sound a bit less like mad conspiratorial ravings, could you flesh out how Whatsapp would allow Russian banks, government agencies, companies and oligarchs to move large quantities of money if they're disconnected from SWIFT? For example, how would Russia get around the fact that Whatsapp is only offering thi…

Oh, but this isn't for the Russian people! It's for the so called "oligarchs" and their families who - surprise - don't actually live in Russia! They like America and western Europe much better. And if you don't realise that Russian government / KGB is VERY MUCH behind Facebook and its initiatives, I'm afraid you have quite a bit of catching up to do.

> "oligarchs" and their families who - surprise - don't actually live in Russia!

How would Whatsapp's service with a $300 maximum transaction limit, that's only available in the US, allow them to evade a hypothetical disconnection of Russian banks from SWIFT?

Re: WhatsApp Launches Instant Cryptocurrency Payments in the US

#80

Post by thehappypm »

fragmede wrote: post #50
thehappypm wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but is this any more interesting than a partnership where WhatsApp lets people PayPal money to other WhatsApp users?

From a individual perspective, if you are in the US and all of your friends are in the US and are able to get PayPal accounts, and you don't personally use WhatsApp and see it as just another messaging service, the practical answer to your question, for you, personally, is no. However, thinking of this only in terms of this this will affect you is short-sighted, and apes other hot takes that went down in Internet his…

You’re missing my point. PayPal doesn’t use crypto and it’s easy to use to send money around. WhatsApp, just like PayPal, requires a user to onboard. What makes PayPal complex is the international law around sending money, not the tech stack.
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