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Our main problem in health policy is overemphasis on medicine (2007)

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Re: Our main problem in health policy is overemphasis on medicine (2007)

#71

Post by lambdaba »

stainforth wrote: post #68
lambdaba wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. It's not hard to make the necessary changes if sufficiently motivated. In fact, formulating the motivation is kind of the only step, everybody, and I mean *EVERYBODY* can achieve appropriate weight and even above-average fitness if following the right precepts.

I'd rather reshape the environment we all live in. And yes I mean soda bans and the like.

Oh I agree, I think we've been greatly underestimating how damaging all these are and so should be treated like cigarettes with very heavy taxation that should go towards subsidizing healthy food.

Re: Our main problem in health policy is overemphasis on medicine (2007)

#72

Post by lambdaba »

devilbunny wrote: post #69
lambdaba wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, re: this caricature you make of these "keto" diet cancer plans, it's not true that the "body still runs on glucose", in fact only 25 grams of glucose are manufactured by the liver per day in the absence of dietary carbohydrates. And I don't claim to know the mechanisms, but I know FOR SURE that human beings (and no other animal for that matter) evolved to live on candy bars and sugar water, and that replacing o…

To elaborate: red blood cells are the only part of the body that absolutely must use glucose, and they're not incredibly metabolically active.

Thanks, I didn't know. It's weird to see this misinformation about glucose being the primary fuel for human bodies while it's quite obvious human biology is optimized for fat burning. Glucose is just dealt with in priority because it's only safe in a tight band, and chronically elevated glucose in particular is disastrous to blood vessels. Humans should spend a decent amount of time in fat burning mode with periods of fasting and adequate magnesium intake and exercise for optimal vascular health.

Re: Our main problem in health policy is overemphasis on medicine (2007)

#73

Post by spurgu »

Robotbeat wrote: post #40
908B64B197 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most obese people find it extremely hard to stop being obese and often fail despite immense effort. Calories in vs calories out. Simple as that.

You’re fighting a billion years of evolution screaming at you to bulk up in case there’s a famine. Good luck.

That's a bit illogical isn't it? Better to put the food in your pockets than in your stomach.

Re: Our main problem in health policy is overemphasis on medicine (2007)

#74

Post by danachow »

lambdaba wrote: post #72
devilbunny wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To elaborate: red blood cells are the only part of the body that absolutely must use glucose, and they're not incredibly metabolically active.

Thanks, I didn't know. It's weird to see this misinformation about glucose being the primary fuel for human bodies while it's quite obvious human biology is optimized for fat burning. Glucose is just dealt with in priority because it's only safe in a tight band, and chronically elevated glucose in particular is disastrous to blood vessels. Humans should spend a decent amount of time in fat burning mode with periods o…

Because it’s not misinformation - the body absolutely needs glucose homeostasis to survive - if you don’t eat carbs it will make it out of protein. The body has numerous mechanisms and basically dedicated organs for the conversion, metabolism, storage, and production of glucose. The whole Krebs cycle is built around the processing of byproducts of glucose - so you’re utterly full of shit that it’s “only safe in a tight band”. That the body can additionally use fatty acids in the form of ketone bodies as a stopgap is a testament to adaptability - but even people on keto require a homeostasis of a close to normal level of blood glucose. And how do they get this? Through the metabolism of proteins which can be amazingly converted to the glucose the body needs to survive.

This is high school level biology, and easily reviewed with 10 minutes on Wikipedia.

Re: Our main problem in health policy is overemphasis on medicine (2007)

#75

Post by lambdaba »

danachow wrote: post #74
lambdaba wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, I didn't know. It's weird to see this misinformation about glucose being the primary fuel for human bodies while it's quite obvious human biology is optimized for fat burning. Glucose is just dealt with in priority because it's only safe in a tight band, and chronically elevated glucose in particular is disastrous to blood vessels. Humans should spend a decent amount of time in fat burning mode with periods o…

Because it’s not misinformation - the body absolutely needs glucose homeostasis to survive - if you don’t eat carbs it will make it out of protein. The body has numerous mechanisms and basically dedicated organs for the conversion, metabolism, storage, and production of glucose. The whole Krebs cycle is built around the processing of byproducts of glucose - so you’re utterly full of shit that it’s “only safe in a tig…

I did not say the body can't deal with glucose and as you point out, produce it on demand. What I meant by "in a tight band" was the chronically elevated glucose is damaging to organs as evidenced by what happens in advanced diabetes.

And the body doesn't need dietary carbohydrates, which was my point. It does absolutely need both proteins and fats without which starvation occurs.

Re: Our main problem in health policy is overemphasis on medicine (2007)

#76

Post by isoblvck »

orborde wrote: post #9

(OP here) This essay set may superficially appear to be another repetitive salvo in the interminable US healthcare political conflict, but I recommend reading a bit deeper. I think the perspective these essays offer (that, at the margin, medical spending doesn't affect people's wellspan much, at least not in the US) is both quite important and underrepresented in most discussions of healthcare.

medicare for all. done.

Re: Our main problem in health policy is overemphasis on medicine (2007)

#77

Post by danachow »

lambdaba wrote: post #75
danachow wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it’s not misinformation - the body absolutely needs glucose homeostasis to survive - if you don’t eat carbs it will make it out of protein. The body has numerous mechanisms and basically dedicated organs for the conversion, metabolism, storage, and production of glucose. The whole Krebs cycle is built around the processing of byproducts of glucose - so you’re utterly full of shit that it’s “only safe in a tig…

I did not say the body can't deal with glucose and as you point out, produce it on demand. What I meant by "in a tight band" was the chronically elevated glucose is damaging to organs as evidenced by what happens in advanced diabetes. And the body doesn't need dietary carbohydrates, which was my point. It does absolutely need both proteins and fats without which starvation occurs.

I said the body runs on glucose (ie it is essential for survival) - you claimed that was misinformation (which it isn’t) - I said nothing about dietary carbohydrates.

Blood glucose levels for those on even the extreme keto diets will be regulated in the same range (60-90 mg/dl) as someone on a more conventional diet that does not have impaired glucose metabolism.

People with Type 1 diabetes still need insulin even if they are on a keto diet.

Re: Our main problem in health policy is overemphasis on medicine (2007)

#78

Post by CorrectHorseBat »

bpfrh wrote: post #21
dadjoker wrote: post #10

[flagged]

But vaccines ARE the miraculouse cure, at least in my country the high case load is because of unvaccinated or not fully vaccinated people. If about 80% of the population took it, we wouldn't have any problem. Of course previous health issues matter when you get sick and of course we should encourage healthier living, but we won't change this in the next 6 Months, for that we have a vaccine.

In my country ~80% of the population took the vaccine and we still have many problems. Right now it's even the region with the highest vaccination rate that has the biggest wave.

It would've probably been much much worse without the vaccines, but they are sadly not a miraculous cure that solves all problems.

Re: Our main problem in health policy is overemphasis on medicine (2007)

#79

Post by redis_mlc »

nradov wrote: post #48
NoPie wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

14 years old article is a good reason to take note of it as it shows it is not just some fad but important long-term issue. I don't think the issue itself is controversial. I was taught at university that our life expectancy is determined roughly speaking one third by our genes, one third by our lifestyle and one third by healthcare. And then it became apparent that most healthcare interventions (childhood vaccinatio…

I generally agree but public sanitation measures including water purification, food inspection, garbage disposal, and sewers also have a huge impact on average life expectancy. Maybe even more than healthcare. In other words, vaccines are wonderful but if I had to pick between vaccines and clean water I'd take clean water every time.

I'd agree.

My theory is that the reason life span is 20 years less in the developing world is solely due to water treatment issues, resulting in wide-spread hepatitis.

By 60, most people look (and feel) 80 there.

Re: Our main problem in health policy is overemphasis on medicine (2007)

#80

Post by lambdaba »

danachow wrote: post #77
lambdaba wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did not say the body can't deal with glucose and as you point out, produce it on demand. What I meant by "in a tight band" was the chronically elevated glucose is damaging to organs as evidenced by what happens in advanced diabetes. And the body doesn't need dietary carbohydrates, which was my point. It does absolutely need both proteins and fats without which starvation occurs.

I said the body runs on glucose (ie it is essential for survival) - you claimed that was misinformation (which it isn’t) - I said nothing about dietary carbohydrates. Blood glucose levels for those on even the extreme keto diets will be regulated in the same range (60-90 mg/dl) as someone on a more conventional diet that does not have impaired glucose metabolism. People with Type 1 diabetes still need insulin even if…

You said "at the end of the day your body still runs on glucose" which is NOT true on a ketogenic diet, as a mere 25 grams are manufactured by the liver as needed for (apparently) red blood cells.

Yes, I agree that ketogenic dieters still have glucose, obviously, my point was about CHRONICALLY ELEVATED glucose being deleterious for blood vessel health, which is widely known and, again, cause of the necrosis seen in late-stage diabetes.

I know of at least one T1 diabetic that is OFF INSULIN on a ketogenic (carnivore) diet.

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