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Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

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Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#71

Post by MostAwesomeDude »

nirvana wrote: post #60
nitrogen wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...by google fans because they want to believe that it is ok for google to rip off the iPhone and give away a counterfeit operating system. Here you go too far. You don't have to like Android, MeeGo, or any other non-Apple OS, but calling any of them counterfeit is highly inaccurate. Google isn't stealing Apple's software and repackaging it as their own. In the form of the oft-used car analogy: you're accusing Hyunda…

Google is, in fact, stealing Apple's patented inventions and repackaging it as their own. Hence the sudden flare up in "patents are all bogus and a bad idea" propaganda. Before the announcement of the iPhone the Android phones looked a whole lot like blackberries. Google didn't spend 7 years coming up with a multi-touch operating system, and the underlying technology. They spent one year copying what Apple did, right…

Hi, welcome to the 90s, when patents were already "bogus and a bad idea." Remember GIF? JPEG? LZW? RAR? S3TC? MP3? MPEG-2? AAC? MPEG-4? h.264?

I'll understand if you've forgotten all of these. After all, when a software patent only inconveniences people making Free Software, it doesn't really count as "bogus and a bad idea," right?

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#72

Post by commandar »

nirvana wrote: post #60
nitrogen wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...by google fans because they want to believe that it is ok for google to rip off the iPhone and give away a counterfeit operating system. Here you go too far. You don't have to like Android, MeeGo, or any other non-Apple OS, but calling any of them counterfeit is highly inaccurate. Google isn't stealing Apple's software and repackaging it as their own. In the form of the oft-used car analogy: you're accusing Hyunda…

Google is, in fact, stealing Apple's patented inventions and repackaging it as their own. Hence the sudden flare up in "patents are all bogus and a bad idea" propaganda. Before the announcement of the iPhone the Android phones looked a whole lot like blackberries. Google didn't spend 7 years coming up with a multi-touch operating system, and the underlying technology. They spent one year copying what Apple did, right…

>consumers who genuinely think they are getting iPhones.

Are you delusional or just trolling? If the latter, I'd suggest a more subtle approach in the future.

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#73

Post by nirvana »

mcantelon wrote: post #61
nirvana wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The answer to your question is a quote from Lucas that I read in a hardback book covering the history of Pixar from around that time. He essentially said as much. Also, at that time, Industrial Light and Magic was a practical shop, they were not doing "digital filmmaking" and Lucas wasn't yet a proponent of digital filmmaking, as this really didn't exist yet. So, Pixar was very much an odd duck there, they didn't hav…

>[Google fans] want to believe that it is ok for google to rip off the iPhone and give away a counterfeit operating system I love how in one breath Apple fanboys call Android a copycat and in the next claim it's so much harder to use than iOS. Which is it?

Where's the contradiction? Google didn't spend 7 years working out the kinks to get the usability right. Also, since they license to anyone, most of the hardware is crap hardware, thus the pointing accuracy is way off. Also, Apple takes a 72 pixel, roughly, finger contact area and turns it into a touch point with pixel level accuracy. That's not easy and that's not easy for Google to copy (probably because Apple hasn't patented it, or the patent didn't give enough away.) That right there is probably a large reason why they don't work as well.

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#74

Post by MostAwesomeDude »

oemera wrote: post #63

Oh come on! "Zappos did change how we buy shoes, so what?" really? No it didn't. Maybe for you in the USA but in Europe it didn't. But the iPod and iTunes store changed how we buy music in the whole world. See the difference? Changing something in the whole world is a way bigger challenge than just establishing a new shop with convenient shopping methods in the USA. I'm sorry if this sounds like fanboism but you shou…

Actually, I feel that the group that should get the most credit for changing how we buy music, worldwide, is Napster, for the remarkable idea that we can change how we buy music by not buying it.

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#75

Post by nirvana »

MostAwesomeDude wrote: post #71
nirvana wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is, in fact, stealing Apple's patented inventions and repackaging it as their own. Hence the sudden flare up in "patents are all bogus and a bad idea" propaganda. Before the announcement of the iPhone the Android phones looked a whole lot like blackberries. Google didn't spend 7 years coming up with a multi-touch operating system, and the underlying technology. They spent one year copying what Apple did, right…

Hi, welcome to the 90s, when patents were already "bogus and a bad idea." Remember GIF? JPEG? LZW? RAR? S3TC? MP3? MPEG-2? AAC? MPEG-4? h.264? I'll understand if you've forgotten all of these. After all, when a software patent only inconveniences people making Free Software, it doesn't really count as "bogus and a bad idea," right?

I'm always at a loss as to whether I should try to parse thru these snide comments to try and figure out what the argument you're trying to make is, or if I should just ignore them.

At the very least, your putting words in my mouth so I don't have to defend them.

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#77

Post by commandar »

MostAwesomeDude wrote: post #71
nirvana wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is, in fact, stealing Apple's patented inventions and repackaging it as their own. Hence the sudden flare up in "patents are all bogus and a bad idea" propaganda. Before the announcement of the iPhone the Android phones looked a whole lot like blackberries. Google didn't spend 7 years coming up with a multi-touch operating system, and the underlying technology. They spent one year copying what Apple did, right…

Hi, welcome to the 90s, when patents were already "bogus and a bad idea." Remember GIF? JPEG? LZW? RAR? S3TC? MP3? MPEG-2? AAC? MPEG-4? h.264? I'll understand if you've forgotten all of these. After all, when a software patent only inconveniences people making Free Software, it doesn't really count as "bogus and a bad idea," right?

Patents were reviled by geeks even in a pre-9/11 world. ;)

http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&#3...

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#78

Post by nirvana »

commandar wrote: post #72
nirvana wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is, in fact, stealing Apple's patented inventions and repackaging it as their own. Hence the sudden flare up in "patents are all bogus and a bad idea" propaganda. Before the announcement of the iPhone the Android phones looked a whole lot like blackberries. Google didn't spend 7 years coming up with a multi-touch operating system, and the underlying technology. They spent one year copying what Apple did, right…

>consumers who genuinely think they are getting iPhones. Are you delusional or just trolling? If the latter, I'd suggest a more subtle approach in the future.

Remember when ReadWriteWeb was the first hit on Google for the term "Facebook" for a few days and they got thousands of people hitting their page posting comments about how they couldn't log into google? Because they were goggling for Facebook in order to get on Facebook, and the first result was no longer Facebook for that period.

That's something you'd probably never do, but for millions of people, that's how they know how to get to Facebook.

I'm neither delusional, nor am I trolling. I'm just making an argument you don't like. I don't think its appropriate that you would characterize me in a derogatory way like that, because you're engaging in attacks to the person, rather than to the point, and I think that Hacker News should have a higher level of debate than that.

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#79

Post by lotharbot »

nirvana wrote: post #54
lotharbot wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Recall that the context of this article is innovations over the last decade. Both the GUI and personal computers are 35+ years old (and neither were pioneered by Apple; Xerox invented the GUI, and other systems like the TRS-80 and Altair 8800 were on the market in the Apple I/II era). Even direct-manipulation touchscreen interfaces predate this decade; I remember ordering at Arby's using such a system in the 1990s. I…

The context of this article is denigrating Apple by misrepresenting, using falsehoods, its contributions to the computer industry. When you claim that "neither were pioneered by Apple" you tell an outright lie. The Apple I was on the market before the TRS-80, and the Altair 8800 was a kit that didn't even produce a complete computer, it was not a personal computer. Xerox did not invent the GUI. The idea that an arby'…

There's an unreasonable amount of emotionally charged language in your post. This is Hacker News, not "call people uninformed barely-computer literate consumers and haters because they don't share your viewpoint news". Make your arguments in a civil manner, please.

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The Altair 8800 was a kit computer, which could also be ordered preassembled. The Apple I had a fully assembled circuit board, but still required assembly of other components. The TRS-80 and Apple II were both fully preassembled, and contemporary with each other. It's fair to say that Apple was an important player in the move toward personal computers, but I don't think it's fair to say they invented them.

AFAIK, Xerox was the first company to use an actual GUI, on the Alto (none of what Stanford did before would qualify as a "GUI", IMO.) Apple's Lisa was a big step forward for the GUI, adding things like window controls and menus. Again, Apple was an important player in the move to GUIs, and pioneered several specific GUI elements, but it's not fair to say they invented the GUI.

And, of course, both of these inventions are well over a decade old; when speaking about companies that "changed everything" between 2000 and 2010, they're not relevant.

Your references to "the touch UI" are confusing. I'm not aware of any product with that name. My best guess is that you're referring to some specific detail of iOS -- multitouch, perhaps? Without clarification, I don't really know how to respond to this particular point, or even if it needs responded to. Apple certainly put together a nice UI, and probably invented several specific conventions in doing so; I'm just not sure what in particular you think is revolutionary or needs to be acknowledged.

Re: Apple changed everything? Yeah, right.

#80

Post by nirvana »

mayanksinghal wrote: post #65
nirvana wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're knocking down a strawman. Your argument is that the guy who invented the internal combustion engine didn't actually invent it because the guy who invented the piston is the one who invented it.

Xerox is known to be the inventor of GUI. Apple made it popular. There is a difference. It's very much like how Apple invented PC but MS revolutionized and captured the market. I am giving due credit to all parties; you are omitting/trivializing all the conceptualization that went into an earlier concept - the ones that Apple's products were based upon.

>Xerox is known to be the inventor of GUI.

This is a lie that you really shouldn't be perpetuating. This isn't a question of opinion, but of historical fact, an you are telling a falsehood. There's no debating it.

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