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A new way to make quadratic equations easy (2019)

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Re: A new way to make quadratic equations easy (2019)

#71
post #66
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only as bad as memorizing the usual quadratic formula. While most people are taught the derivation of the quadratic formula, few remember it, opting instead to memorize it. Likewise, you've just derived the b^2/4 aspect. Most people don't want to rederive it every time they solve it, so they just memorize that they should add and subtract b^2/4 and complete the square. BTW, if the notion of adding and subtractin…

> BTW, if the notion of adding and subtracting the same amount bothers you: Yes, this is done all the time. I'm a mathematician. I'm not ignorant; I have taste. I've seen a similar technique used two prove the product rule in analysis. I always find ways of avoiding such tricks because I see them as Deus Ex Machina s. I don't think of mathematics as an exercise in ill-motivated tricks.

> I've seen a similar technique used two prove the product rule in analysis. I always find ways of avoiding such tricks because I see them as Deus Ex Machinas. I don't think of mathematics as an exercise in ill-motivated tricks.

Just to expand on this thought... in logic, "cut elimination" is a desirable property to have in a logical system. The "cut" rule states that, if you've proved "A -> B" (A implies B) and "B -> C", then you're licensed to deduce "A -> C". But in the statement "A -> C", B doesn't ever have to appear on its own, so if you're working backward, the "B" that splits the problem into two pieces can appear deeply unmotivated and appear out of nowhere.

A deductive system with the "cut elimination" property means that, whenever you have a proof that uses "cut", there's always a way to transform the proof into one that doesn't use "cut". Put less precisely, there's always a proof that doesn't use any unmotivated variables. (In computer science terms, "cut" is like implementing a function in terms of an existing function; you can always inline the original and then simplify the resulting code.)

"Cut elimination" is desirable because it makes automatic reasoning tractable. If you want to prove "A -> C", rather than trying to discover some arbitrary "B" that produces more tractable goals "A -> B" and "B -> C", there are (usually) only finitely many deductive steps that could terminate in "A -> C", and you can simply try each one.

Although humans aren't machines, creativity is still difficult in fields we're not accustomed to. While adding and subtracting a term formally doesn't change the result, there are infinitely many choices of term that produce this result. Why that one? It's entirely unmotivated; it clearly works, but there's no obvious way you could have plucked that particular term out of thin air yourself.

> The process I follow is more like I observe that for general k:

Your derivation is awesome! Rather than deducing forward from the raw materials (the given quadratic), you deduce backward from the goal. This lets you leverage known information to pick values that get you visibly closer to the starting point, term by term.

In the classic case, the goal here is to "complete the square", which is still of the unmotivated "cut" flavor -- it's not clear to the unskilled eye why that ought to be helpful.

I don't think the article's approach is any better motivated in that respect; we still have to introduce the idea that all quadratics can be factored into two first-order terms. This is not a trivial theorem, and it assumes access to the entire complex field (otherwise it's simply untrue in general).

But I think both approaches are valuable, as reliant on some "unmotivated" magic as they are. They all lend some insight into what's going on. Minimizing those moments is definitely beneficial though.

Re: A new way to make quadratic equations easy (2019)

#72
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teachers & the educational system in general should give examples of why stuff needs to be learnt instead of being dictated to, because they have one of the largest influences on the future direction of a country's success. Teaching was a cop out, a cushy number for those who couldn't hack it in the real world and liked to take their failure out on pupils. Many teachers couldn't run a business the way they treated ki…

One of the biggest source of bad ideas in education is that people think it would be better if it catered to the kind of person they thought they were when they went to school. "Imagine if, instead of wasting time on phonics, we inspired white upper middle class students like myself by giving them real literature!" "Imagine if they inspired students with the kind of problems I think I would have found interesting!" "…

It's not just a "kind of person" who wants personal relevance to what they're learning.

It's human nature for learning to take place naturally and effortlessly when there is a felt purpose and relevance. For all humans.

The problem with this in schools, is that you can't actually generate this sense of purpose (which is a feeling, emotional) for arbitrary subject-student pairings. What do when it fails?

The strategy is, they TRY to generate the sense of purpose (maybe not try that hard, after years of failure and burnout), but fall back to the emotion of fear as primary coordinator/motivator for everything.

They make students afraid to look stupid in the short term, and afraid of an abstract "bad future" ("flipping burgers") in the long term. They introduce the system of grades for 3 whole years of middle school, when the grades serve no purpose (they're not used by colleges) but to generate the fear-based emotional economy of the school.

Fear is the primary emotional mechanism of the school. For every kind of person, this is worse educationally than felt purposeful engagement.

Re: A new way to make quadratic equations easy (2019)

#73
post #67
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read the article. It is called "pq formeln" _in Swedish_. The p and q refers to the traditional names of the coefficients. I cannot find any link in English referring to it, but it is part of the standard curriculum. One example of a website explaining it here below (in Swedish), but still, you can clearly see that it's the same formula OP has given: https://eddler.se/lektioner/pq-formeln/

Right, but this just describes how to use this variant of the more standard formula. What is interesting is how do you derive the formula.

Yup, agreed. But this the standard formula everyone here memorizes, so I thought it might be interesting since it wasn't mentioned anywhere in the article.

I did refer to the "result" rather than the derivation.

Re: A new way to make quadratic equations easy (2019)

#75
post #66
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only as bad as memorizing the usual quadratic formula. While most people are taught the derivation of the quadratic formula, few remember it, opting instead to memorize it. Likewise, you've just derived the b^2/4 aspect. Most people don't want to rederive it every time they solve it, so they just memorize that they should add and subtract b^2/4 and complete the square. BTW, if the notion of adding and subtractin…

> BTW, if the notion of adding and subtracting the same amount bothers you: Yes, this is done all the time. I'm a mathematician. I'm not ignorant; I have taste. I've seen a similar technique used two prove the product rule in analysis. I always find ways of avoiding such tricks because I see them as Deus Ex Machina s. I don't think of mathematics as an exercise in ill-motivated tricks.

> I'm a mathematician

That explains everything :-)

You probably don't solve quadratic equations anywhere near as much as an engineer/physicist would, and so prefer less memorization and more "being able to derive when I need it". The latter is just too time consuming to do it every time.

I'm guessing you don't recall off the top of your head what the integral of 1/sqrt(a^2-x^2) or of 1/(a^2+x^2) is (unless you happen to teach Calc II), but most physicists likely do as they encounter it often and just memorized it. At the very least, if they had to derive it every time it showed up in a problem in an exam, they would run out of time.

Re: A new way to make quadratic equations easy (2019)

#76
post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The key difference between this method and the traditional "completing the squares" technique is that there's no guessing involved. Students get frustrated with trying out different numbers to get the right sum and product. It's easy for them to make a mistake or think they made a mistake. This method is more mechanical and also looks easier than just chugging on the quadratic formula. Is it dramatically better than…

There is no guessing in the "completing the square" method either.

Yeah, you're right, the method I was thinking of is actually called "solving by factoring".

like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5MnP9da4EM&t=371s

It does involve writing down and checking combinations. It's roughly how I was taught back in the day and I think it's very popular even now.

Re: A new way to make quadratic equations easy (2019)

#77
post #6

The B/2 term places the center of the parabola, which you can verify by either inspecting the derivative or fiddling with a graphing calculator. Then, because the parabola is symmetric, the zeros must be a pair of points mirrored across the center, with the distance from the center determined by the vertical offset (the C term) versus the narrowness (the A term). Which I definitely agree is an easier way to deal with…

It's only obvious that x = -B/2A is the parabola's axis of symmetry if you complete the square in the traditional way, or use calculus to locate the extremum. So it seems to me that we don't need a new method, we need better teaching of the tried-and-true method. If children were exposed to this new thing, even more of them would be traumatized and develop a lifelong loathing for quadratic equations. The ideal method…

> complete the square AND provide a geometric interpretation of the expression that results.

+1 for this. This is the approach I would recommend too, see Figure 2.2 for the picture behind the completing the square trick: https://minireference.com/static/excerpts/noBSmath_v5_previe...

Re: A new way to make quadratic equations easy (2019)

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's only obvious that x = -B/2A is the parabola's axis of symmetry if you complete the square in the traditional way, or use calculus to locate the extremum. So it seems to me that we don't need a new method, we need better teaching of the tried-and-true method. If children were exposed to this new thing, even more of them would be traumatized and develop a lifelong loathing for quadratic equations. The ideal method…

> complete the square AND provide a geometric interpretation of the expression that results. +1 for this. This is the approach I would recommend too, see Figure 2.2 for the picture behind the completing the square trick: https://minireference.com/static/excerpts/noBSmath_v5_previe...

Yes, and it has a coordinate geometry interpretation too. Completing the square represents the original quadratic function as a basic x^2 parabola that's been scaled vertically, shifted vertically, then shifted horizontally. If you understand what each of these three operations do to the roots of the parabola, you can derive the quadratic formula. (It's basically just the algebraic way with diagrams, but may help the geometry-loving/algebra-hating types out there.)

Re: A new way to make quadratic equations easy (2019)

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a "pedagogically minded" reader, and I find these words unnecessary at best, and off putting at worst. Math needs better marketing based on actual science, not egotism

Teachers & the educational system in general should give examples of why stuff needs to be learnt instead of being dictated to, because they have one of the largest influences on the future direction of a country's success. Teaching was a cop out, a cushy number for those who couldn't hack it in the real world and liked to take their failure out on pupils. Many teachers couldn't run a business the way they treated ki…

[deleted]

Re: A new way to make quadratic equations easy (2019)

#80
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Teachers & the educational system in general should give examples of why stuff needs to be learnt instead of being dictated to, because they have one of the largest influences on the future direction of a country's success. Teaching was a cop out, a cushy number for those who couldn't hack it in the real world and liked to take their failure out on pupils. Many teachers couldn't run a business the way they treated ki…

One of the biggest source of bad ideas in education is that people think it would be better if it catered to the kind of person they thought they were when they went to school. "Imagine if, instead of wasting time on phonics, we inspired white upper middle class students like myself by giving them real literature!" "Imagine if they inspired students with the kind of problems I think I would have found interesting!" "…

I was taught stuff at Primary School which I then got taught at Secondary school. Admittedly I moved around due to parents jobs but you could not get a consistence curriculum in the UK. AQA the main exam board was setup because private schools sat their pupils with exams from the easiest exam boards unlike state schools who just went with exam boards that suited them. From an employers perspective, a private school pupil with an A was like a state school C, but that's the sort of privilege having money can buy you and is perhaps why Uni's and some employers here in the UK are now waking up too. The class system in the UK is a very repressive system of control that infects every aspect of life to the detriment of the UK and the wider world.
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