People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms • Hacker News Board

Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#71

Post by Yoric » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 5:26 PM UTC

ColinHayhurst wrote: post #2

One has to wonder why these protests, which happen every week and are big, barely get reported in the media. When they are mentioned many people denounce them as being a bunch of anti-vaxxers. This is far from true, but like so much propoganda nowadays has an element of truth. Personally, I'm pro-vaccine, double jabbed and luckily no bad experiences with side effects. But I'm vehemently anti-vaccine passport. Every o…

> But the vaccinated are being infected at higher rates than the non-vaccinated according to UK govt data.

I've been poring your gov.uk link and the closest thing I can find to data that would back this affirmation comes with very heavy caveat:

« Comparing case rates among vaccinated and unvaccinated populations should not be used to estimate vaccine effectiveness against COVID-19 infection. Vaccine effectiveness has been formally estimated from a number of different sources and is summarised on pages 5 to 8 in this report.

The case rates in the vaccinated and unvaccinated populations are unadjusted crude rates that do not take into account underlying statistical biases in the data and there are likely to be systematic differences between these 2 population groups. »

Also, assuming that your conclusions are, is that the number we should be watching? We're looking for number of people who go to the hospital, die or suffer from long covid. According to the same table you're looking at, vaccines are a huge success at preventing deaths (I haven't bothered looking data on these other points).

edit Nuanced my response. I believe that the parent's response came before my edit.

Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#72

Post by ColinHayhurst » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 5:28 PM UTC

Yoric wrote: post #71

ColinHayhurst wrote: post #2

One has to wonder why these protests, which happen every week and are big, barely get reported in the media. When they are mentioned many people denounce them as being a bunch of anti-vaxxers. This is far from true, but like so much propoganda nowadays has an element of truth. Personally, I'm pro-vaccine, double jabbed and luckily no bad experiences with side effects. But I'm vehemently anti-vaccine passport. Every o…

> But the vaccinated are being infected at higher rates than the non-vaccinated according to UK govt data. I've been poring your gov.uk link and the closest thing I can find to data that would back this affirmation comes with very heavy caveat: « Comparing case rates among vaccinated and unvaccinated populations should not be used to estimate vaccine effectiveness against COVID-19 infection. Vaccine effectiveness has…

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29287164

Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#73

Post by ColinHayhurst » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 5:33 PM UTC

gnucru wrote: post #70

ColinHayhurst wrote: post #2

One has to wonder why these protests, which happen every week and are big, barely get reported in the media. When they are mentioned many people denounce them as being a bunch of anti-vaxxers. This is far from true, but like so much propoganda nowadays has an element of truth. Personally, I'm pro-vaccine, double jabbed and luckily no bad experiences with side effects. But I'm vehemently anti-vaccine passport. Every o…

Wow, that is a pretty misleading and irresponsible use of gov't data, and I would be surprised if it fooled anyone here. With 70% vaccination rate in the uk, the rate of infection among the vaxxed would need to be over double that of the unvaxxed to indicate a lack of effect. It is simple math. Are you really that oblivious(in which case you should probably keep your mouth shut), or are you just trying to make fools…

The numbers are normalised (per 100,000)

Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#74

Post by Yoric » Sat, Nov 20, 2021, 5:41 PM UTC

agentgumshoe wrote: post #61

Febra33 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just think that it's a shame so many resources go to waste into treating infected unvaccinated people (they have a higher chance of ending up in the hospital) when we could redirect those resources to people that can't avoid hospitalisation with something as easy as getting a vaccine. Many scientists have been saying for months now that the vaccine might not be that effective in protecting against an infection but…

But the vaccinated are still ending up in hospital in increasing numbers. It's not that simple. Also, it amazingly continues to remain anecdotal instead of receiving proper media/scientific investigation, but the side effect profile is nowhere near as small as reported. Considering the affected are mostly younger, it is concerning the level of dismissal directed at this, rather instead a trusting statements from the…

> Also, it amazingly continues to remain anecdotal instead of receiving proper media/scientific investigation, but the side effect profile is nowhere near as small as reported.

I may be misreading what you write, but are you putting together "media attention" and "scientific attention"?

In this crisis as in everything else, media have the attention span of a goldfish and considerably less attention to detail. In this crisis as in everything else, scientists, on the other hand, are working hard to obtain and study serious data, something that may very well take years.

And then there are people (not claiming you're among them) who are angry at scientists because media are not doing their work and who prefer taking the word of charlatans because - big surprise - since they don't need scientific rigor, or sometimes even real data, they can find answers to all questions.

Not a big fan of where this is all going.

Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#75

Post by AndrewBissell » Sun, Nov 21, 2021, 3:24 AM UTC

mordae wrote: post #14

In my country, they have recently started with jews-in-nazi-Germany fearmongering. It's incredible, how fast does the Facebook schismogenesis work. "We all need to get vaccinated!" "But I am afraid!" "You are unsafe for your community and should be ashamed!" "I don't want to be stigmatized. Why are you pushing this so hard?" "You are now required to prove that you have complied to live a normal life." "This is litera…

"schismogenesis"

I'm just curious, did you happen to pick up that term from Jasun Horsley?

Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#76

Post by agentgumshoe » Mon, Nov 22, 2021, 12:35 AM UTC

sto_hristo wrote: post #66

readflaggedcomm wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does pose risks to others when it depletes social health resources.

And this is exactly what the virus has been doing since day one. Forcing one lockdown after another, because hospitals fill like it's nothing. In my city, ambulances have more in common with a private tour shuttles - jumping from one hospital to another. Yet, these antivaxers simply can't accept reality. They are like flat earthers - Earth is round below their feet, but they insist the opposite. Only instead of NASA…

[flagged]

Re: People in 150 cities globally standing up to authoritarian controls on freedoms

#77

Post by sleepysysadmin » Mon, Nov 22, 2021, 1:02 PM UTC

ColinHayhurst wrote: post #2

One has to wonder why these protests, which happen every week and are big, barely get reported in the media. When they are mentioned many people denounce them as being a bunch of anti-vaxxers. This is far from true, but like so much propoganda nowadays has an element of truth. Personally, I'm pro-vaccine, double jabbed and luckily no bad experiences with side effects. But I'm vehemently anti-vaccine passport. Every o…

>One has to wonder why these protests, which happen every week and are big, barely get reported in the media. When they are mentioned many people denounce them as being a bunch of anti-vaxxers. This is far from true, but like so much propoganda nowadays has an element of truth.

Same reason the media are who pushed the narrative that covid is as bad as the spanish flu. Even though it never was. It has left quite a number of people believing that covid is worse than the normal flu. Which it never was.

I've considered as well, if the media reported the truth. Would our society have considered lockdowns at all? If society knew the truth that covid has lower risk than the normal flu season. We wouldn't have done anything. We know because we dont do anything for normal flu.

Flipside, shouldnt we try to eliminate these things?