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Crypto Wash Trading

arxiv.org

71–80 of 306 posts

Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#71
post #66
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya I seriously doubt there is much wash trading at the Tier A exchanges you listed above.

The market is interdependent. Wash trading on one platform benefits all other platforms. When you ask someone the price of BTC they don't say $x on Coinbase, $y on Kraken, etc. Literally all of crypto is a scam. After 10 years there is not one feasible use case that isn't done better through another tool. I don't consider "making black markets and extortion easier" a feasible use case.

But it is a use case, along with gambling via crypto day trading.

You may not like it morally and may wish for crypto to be legally banned as a result, but casinos are real and extortion is real.

Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#72
post #24

This is why Uniswap's data is much more valuable than centralized exchanges. On-chain trading permits a degree of transparency and trustworthiness not readily feasible with centralized exchanges. Centralized exchanges are incentivized to doctor their data and lie about their volumes. The larger the volumes an exchange publishes, even if fake or gamed, the more relevant an exchange appears. Users must blindly trust wh…

~80% of pools and tokens on Uniswap are scams and rug pulls and it's even harder to figure out what's real.

Useless/scam tokens are a problem, but it's not specific to Uniswap. That's a problem inherent to permitting anyone to create a new token, like with ERC-20 tokens.

If you want to trade useful tokens, Uniswap's data is the most truthful.

It's not that the system can't be gamed, it's that he costs of gaming are transparent and predictable.

Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#74

Can somebody explain to a crypto-naif what "wash trading" means here?

People think that because something is professionally and popularly marketed, and frequently painted as a "hot new trend!" that is profitable that it is a train they need to hop on to.

Crypto and NFT are (relatively) new online havens for many criminals, money launderers, and scammers to hide within in the same ways that AMWAY, Time Share Vacation Sales People, and as the guys selling speakers out of their vans in a parking lot did throughout the past, with a little Bernie Madoff and updated/modified MLM tactics added. Not saying all trading is bad, but millions of people have already been victimized in such a short time, and social media is in on the hustle because they make great profits within the promotional and "pump and dump" food chain.

I decided to invest just $100 in bitcoin (on a reputable exchange) to watch it over time a year ago, and so far it's maybe gone just slightly over double that (with spikes and dips in between)... I could not imagine having risked any more money than that because it's pretty stupid to send cash trough the US mail system even though it's protected by law, and Crypto is largely unregulated, and one tweet from the guy who owns Tesla can bring the system to it's knees within the blink of an eye. You can't cry over imaginary profit you haven't lost, so I'm fine with not developing a new gambling addiction.

It's very telling how hard it is to see a simple detail about profit performance for other coins online (over time), graphs are way too simple, each coin's graph has a different set of rules and context, there are far too many different apps and exchanges, regulation and taxing is uncertain, the methods of creation and management for crypto are really elusive, confusing, and abstract for the purpose of making the process very mysterious. The very creator of bitcoin is still not willing to take proper credit for it FFS... That's all I needed to really know in terms of the system's reliability...

NFTs are basically digital files, often stored in a Google Drive (which cannot be exclusively owned by nature), but they are sold as if it's possible for a file to not be copied, scam cue #2... What I'm really trying to get to as a point is that it's all basically a giant pile of malarkey for normal people who can't afford to lose money right now. I trust the skeptics more than the people who are raving about being millionaires from it on YouTube every day, because you can't tell if diamonds are real by watching a video on the Internet.

Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#75
post #24

This is why Uniswap's data is much more valuable than centralized exchanges. On-chain trading permits a degree of transparency and trustworthiness not readily feasible with centralized exchanges. Centralized exchanges are incentivized to doctor their data and lie about their volumes. The larger the volumes an exchange publishes, even if fake or gamed, the more relevant an exchange appears. Users must blindly trust wh…

I'm generally pro-cryptocurrencies, but Uniswap definitly makes it harder to see wash trading, not easier. One wallet !== one person, while the regulated, centralized exchanges normally require you to answer bunch of questions and prove your identity because of KYC/AML laws, to guarantee that each participant is just that, one participant.

[deleted]

Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#76
post #24

This is why Uniswap's data is much more valuable than centralized exchanges. On-chain trading permits a degree of transparency and trustworthiness not readily feasible with centralized exchanges. Centralized exchanges are incentivized to doctor their data and lie about their volumes. The larger the volumes an exchange publishes, even if fake or gamed, the more relevant an exchange appears. Users must blindly trust wh…

.... People pay for volume on uniswap daily ... They just spin up new wallets and keep making them exchange very high amounts of a token (10ETH buy , 10 ETH sell , multiple times) (net expense is just the gas fees, but they get paid wayyy more to do this).

This is usually done to get uniswap traded tokens onto various trending lists like cmc , dextools , etc.

I’d say there is 10-40x the fraud on uniswap than on centralised exchanges, its just that on uniswap if you know where to look, you can transparently see the fake volume being created in front of you.

But for human traders, it can be tricky sometimes.

Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#77
Now for the paper on NFT’s being used ONLY for money laundering. Then hopefully I won’t have to listen to someone talk about how much money other people are making. With NFT you can get any illegal income into the country. Keep your illegal funds outside. Go to your country and make an NFT thats “worth” 1 million dollars. Go out of your country and buy it. Congrats u just made art and washed 1 million. Yes a very simple example but still… No jpegs are not being sold for thousands of dollars for legitimate speculation.

Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#78
post #66
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya I seriously doubt there is much wash trading at the Tier A exchanges you listed above.

The market is interdependent. Wash trading on one platform benefits all other platforms. When you ask someone the price of BTC they don't say $x on Coinbase, $y on Kraken, etc. Literally all of crypto is a scam. After 10 years there is not one feasible use case that isn't done better through another tool. I don't consider "making black markets and extortion easier" a feasible use case.

Oh yeah?

Ever tried to send funds to a family member on the other side of the world over a weekend?

Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#79

Can somebody explain to a crypto-naif what "wash trading" means here?

A real life example is a store where the owners hire fake shoppers to crowd the store and "buy" items that are later returned to the store and refunded. All to make the shop look busy compared to other shops, in order to attract customers and claim that they have more foot traffic than competing stores. A wash trade is anything that results in the equivalent outcome as earlier. It was used to get fraudulent tax refun…

I think you might be conflating Wash Sale and Wash Trade:

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/washtrading.asp

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/washsalerule.asp

Re: Crypto Wash Trading

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is still an order book so to get the price to rise or fall, the trader would have to buy or sell enough to clear the book. How does trading back and forth with themselves do anything other than generate fees for the exchange?

Well, the book can be tiny sometimes.

also fees can be nonexistent for big customers, which are likely to engage in such things
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