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Power Fx: open-source now available

powerapps.microsoft.com

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Re: Power Fx: open-source now available

#71

Post by eggy »

m0zg wrote: post #13

Who's the user for this? It looks too "dumb" for a "real" programmer, and way too "smart" for everyone else. There's no way a real user will be able to navigate that "formula bar". Source: have observed dozens of regular users through one-way mirror _while at MS_ ~18 years ago. The product later became Dynamics. Users would struggle to find the extremely prominent "OK" button sometimes, or press whichever button was…

It will not replace Frink as my desktop calculator/programming environment for "low-code" stuff especially since no other PL/utility handles unit conversions so effortlessly. I do like the command line/REPL example though. Python units libs, and other PL unit libs take too much typing. I've even made graphic apps with calcs and units for certain jobs. If this Power FX had a well-integrated units library and use, I would consider it.

Re: Power Fx: open-source now available

#72

Post by foxbee »

sprash wrote: post #66
foxbee wrote: post #54

I am the cofounder of Budibase, and I agree with the many comments here around Microsoft throwing tools at the low-code space and seeing what sticks. The most popular source of users we get are PowerApps users who are fed up with the constant change and moving states. If you are looking for an open source alternative to Powerapps - check out Budibase [1][2] [1] https://github.com/Budibase/budibase [2] https://budibas…

This looks amazing. This app would make half of my current job more or less redundant.

haha that is certainly not the purpose - it's to speed up the dev process so you can focus on other things.

Re: Power Fx: open-source now available

#73

Post by ModernMech »

dgudkov wrote: post #70
ModernMech wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, “easier” and “more powerful” are meaning-free descriptors. How is your product easier and more powerful? If you’re going to post an ad, at least do me the courtesy of telling me something I don’t know.

I agree, brief descriptions like sound vague and empty. So let me support my claims: EasyMorph is easier for non-technical people because unlike with PowerQuery all of its functionality is available without coding. Also, EasyMorph is more powerful than PowerQuery, because it has a bigger library of available data transformations, for instance, interval merge (a join where a key value must fall in a range specified by…

Thank you! This comment was very informative.

A couple more questions: do you have a roadmap for supporting non-windows systems? And also do you have plans for open sourcing any of your code?

Re: Power Fx: open-source now available

#74

Post by qayxc »

zigzag312 wrote: post #69
qayxc wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd be very interested in a source for that as I've not encountered this and haven't read about it in technical publications either.

When there's an update that requires restart waiting to be installed, don't restart Windows for few weeks and leave computer idle outside active hours. Windows will install the update outside active hours and reboot automatically. It happened to me before. I know of three occurrences of this happening to other people in this year alone. Quick google search: https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/316460-how-to-stop-force…

Interesting. Still doesn't match the "random reboot" claim.

First of all, rebooting outside of active hours and while the machine is idle is the expected and intended behaviour (esp. in Home edition).

Secondly, pushing back updates only works for several weeks - again working as advertised and by no means random.

Inconvenient? Maybe, though I honestly fail to see a scenario in which continuous operation for weeks is absolutely required on a desktop system, but YMMV.

But it's neither "random" nor unexpected in any way. If a properly scheduled reboot of an online machine once a month is unacceptable, then Windows just isn't the right OS for the use case.

Re: Power Fx: open-source now available

#75

Post by zigzag312 »

qayxc wrote: post #74
zigzag312 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When there's an update that requires restart waiting to be installed, don't restart Windows for few weeks and leave computer idle outside active hours. Windows will install the update outside active hours and reboot automatically. It happened to me before. I know of three occurrences of this happening to other people in this year alone. Quick google search: https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/316460-how-to-stop-force…

Interesting. Still doesn't match the "random reboot" claim. First of all, rebooting outside of active hours and while the machine is idle is the expected and intended behaviour (esp. in Home edition). Secondly, pushing back updates only works for several weeks - again working as advertised and by no means random. Inconvenient? Maybe, though I honestly fail to see a scenario in which continuous operation for weeks is…

Yes, they are not completely random, but users may perceive them as such. Technically, nothing on computer is truly random.

Non-technical users don't configure active hours usually. Many are not even aware of this feature.

I'm not sure I would call a feature that can (and does) cause data loss, when user doesn't follow minor update schedule, only inconvenient.

The three cases I mentioned, none were using Home edition. 1st was sister's co-worker that was running some heavy computations of the terrain they were analyzing. He left workstation running over night, expecting to get completed results the next day so he could continue working on it, but system restarted and he lost one day, because he needed to run it again during the work hours. 2nd was a friend writing master's degree. She had all her research documents opened at relevant positions while she was going slowly through the research while writing. She put computer into hibernate mode each night, so she could just resume where she left of next day. Same story, Windows rebooted, closing a few dozen documents. Fortunately, she had her work saved, but she still lost her state/organization of documents and needed to find relevant section of each document again. 3rd was an accountant who was working late and left computer for a few minutes. Again, Windows restarted closing everything. I find current design of updates and active hours very narrow minded. It may seem good in theory, but from my experience, it's bad in practice.

But hey, maybe Windows is not intended for professionals any more. Just home users and gamers.

Re: Power Fx: open-source now available

#76

Post by sneeeeeed »

qayxc wrote: post #55
sneeeeeed wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just run it in a VM, no random reboots to hold you hostage.

What are these "random reboots" people keep mentioning? My Windows boxes usually run about 12 to 14 days between (manual!) reboots, and those reboots are normally done to switch between operating systems. It's been literally years since Microsoft removed automatic reboots and even updates can be be postponed for several weeks and scheduled at the user's convenience. There are plenty of bad things about Windows, but t…

Just a quick question - do you work for or contract with Microsoft or their contractors? Because the whole Internet basically disagrees with your take here.

Re: Power Fx: open-source now available

#77

Post by m0zg »

dvdkon wrote: post #30
m0zg wrote: post #13

Who's the user for this? It looks too "dumb" for a "real" programmer, and way too "smart" for everyone else. There's no way a real user will be able to navigate that "formula bar". Source: have observed dozens of regular users through one-way mirror _while at MS_ ~18 years ago. The product later became Dynamics. Users would struggle to find the extremely prominent "OK" button sometimes, or press whichever button was…

It's for advanced Excel users, they basically deal with the complexity of programming, just in their strange way, and I think it's a good way to reduce "Excel abuse".

My wife is a goddess of "Excel abuse". She (a financial analyst) unearths and uses the kinds of features in Excel I didn't know existed. But she can't code and isn't interested in learning how to do so. It's a different mindset entirely. I think MS is blindsided by having so many programmers around that 99% of the people out there aren't anything like engineers in terms of their mindset, let alone programmers. To those folks all this "accessing of properties" might as well be some inscrutable alien language.

Re: Power Fx: open-source now available

#79

Post by TuringTest »

usrusr wrote: post #49
TuringTest wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you want to take different actions, you can use the Stream metaphor (a.k.a. Observables) instead of variable bindings. Streams maintain the same functional reactive execution paradigm of spreadsheets and property bindings, but you can compose several of them into a new stream with complex conditional logic. You can use the streams as event propagators, and understand the program state as a series of successive u…

That's essentially what the "copy formula down the entire column, updating relative references as you go" pattern of Excel abuse does, right? Might be quite interesting to have a UI that takes all the tedious and distracting column-filling from your shoulders but keeps the tabular representation for debug/understanding.

Yes, that's how it is done in a spreadsheet.

A stream allows you to generalice the computation, not depending on the number of data items that were available when you defined the function; i.e. not different from a function with a loop.

Applications like AirTable and other modern outliners are exploring interfaces to model that kind of generalized data tables and relations with visual metaphors.

Re: Power Fx: open-source now available

#80

Post by qayxc »

zigzag312 wrote: post #75
qayxc wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Still doesn't match the "random reboot" claim. First of all, rebooting outside of active hours and while the machine is idle is the expected and intended behaviour (esp. in Home edition). Secondly, pushing back updates only works for several weeks - again working as advertised and by no means random. Inconvenient? Maybe, though I honestly fail to see a scenario in which continuous operation for weeks is…

Yes, they are not completely random, but users may perceive them as such. Technically, nothing on computer is truly random. Non-technical users don't configure active hours usually. Many are not even aware of this feature. I'm not sure I would call a feature that can (and does) cause data loss, when user doesn't follow minor update schedule, only inconvenient. The three cases I mentioned, none were using Home edition…

Sigh. You are contradicting yourself a little here.

> Non-technical users don't configure active hours usually. Many are not even aware of this feature.

Ok. Fair enough, but then don't end with this:

> maybe Windows is not intended for professionals any more. Just home users and gamers.

All the anecdotes you provides lack crucial details, such as was the system prompting for restarting after updates, how were updates configured, what was the actual version (19004 21H1, older?), etc. It honestly sounds a lot like some important bits and pieces have been left out.

If you're using the Professional Edition and are worried about data loss because of update-related reboots, configure a proper update schedule and group policies - that's what the Professional edition is for.

You can't come to the conclusion that an OS is not for professionals if you don't actually use the corresponding features and configure it accordingly.

Btw., Windows has a feature that allows apps to auto-reopen and restore their state after a reboot. The fact that most software doesn't support this is not the fault of the OS either.

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