Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85% • Hacker News Board

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#71

Post by _Microft » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 1:55 PM UTC

RicoElectrico wrote: post #50

We had reports of people who wanted to take weird-ass drugs-of-the-day just to refuse getting vaccinated. And screaming "conspiracy" when their efficacy was not confirmed to be as high as they expected. Good that we have something that actually works, bad that some assholes will use it as an excuse not to get vaxxed, completely missing the point (among others, trying to prevent something worse than Delta).

On top of that, they will most likely discredit the new drug, claim that it was only developed because there is no money in old drugs,... blablablah.

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#72

Post by chiefalchemist » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #35

gameswithgo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For protecting yourself, probably, for protecting others and helping prevent the virus from spreading and mutating, no.

Didn’t we establish last week the vaccine is not effective at stopping the spread of the virus?

More or less yes. The initial narrative of the jab as panacea has since evolved. The talking point now focuses on reducing hospitalization and death. The bit about the jab stopping transmission has been dropped as the number of so called breakthrough cases increases. Press Secretary Jen Psaki comes to mind.

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#73

Post by civilized » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

RicoElectrico wrote: post #50

We had reports of people who wanted to take weird-ass drugs-of-the-day just to refuse getting vaccinated. And screaming "conspiracy" when their efficacy was not confirmed to be as high as they expected. Good that we have something that actually works, bad that some assholes will use it as an excuse not to get vaxxed, completely missing the point (among others, trying to prevent something worse than Delta).

I think that crowd will hate on this new drug. It's from Big Pharma, very expensive, it's probably full of GMOs and brain-controlling chips from Bill Gates. They'll stick with their cheap, generic ivermectin.

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#74

Post by kps » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #35

gameswithgo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For protecting yourself, probably, for protecting others and helping prevent the virus from spreading and mutating, no.

Didn’t we establish last week the vaccine is not effective at stopping the spread of the virus?

Stopping entirely, no. Reducing, yes.

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#75

Post by adventured » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

phh wrote: post #13

> Pfizer used data on patients who were treated within three days of symptom onset as the headline finding in its press release > There were six hospitalizations and no deaths among the 607 patients who received Paxlovid within five days of symptom onset, compared to 41 hospitalizations and 10 deaths in the placebo cohort. > Like Merck, Pfizer excluded people vaccinated against COVID-19 from its late-phase study. No…

From the NY Times:

"The U.S. government has been in negotiations with Pfizer for enough pills for 1.7 million courses of treatment, with an additional option for 3.3 million, according to a senior administration official. That is about the same quantity that the United States has ordered from Merck. The government expects to pay about $700 per treatment course for both drugs, the official said."

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/05/health/pfizer-covid-pill....

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#76

Post by toyg » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

savant_penguin wrote: post #37

shusaku wrote: post #19

I think it’s hard to overstate what a big deal this is for science. This is a completely novel molecule that appears effective as an antiviral. This would a huge achievement for the field of drug design, and will hopefully lead to all kinds of great medicine.

And it's here in _two_ years

One one side: great job, pharma industry! We're gonna live forever!

On the other side: what are you folks not curing, with your magic powers, just because you know you won't be able to make a buck from it...?

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#77

Post by HelloMcFly » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #29

> Pfizer’s phase 2/3 trial randomized non-hospitalized adult COVID-19 patients who were at high risk of progressing to severe illness to receive placebo or Paxlovid, a combination of the protease inhibitors Oh, a protease inhibitor you say? I was told those were horse dewormers by the media. This whole thing is bullshit. With this much money at stake we were never going to learn the truth.

Except this is studied and dosed appropriately vs. tacking a bunch of Ivermectin and shitting your intestines out based on a half-truth you read about from Facebook.

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#78

Post by loceng » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

Sounds like same/similar rate as Ivermectin - if proper protocol followed.

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#79

Post by kibwen » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 1:56 PM UTC

vibrato2 wrote: post #42

Kinda like ivermectin with the same mechanism

'There is no relationship at all between the two drugs, said Dr. William A Petri, professor of infectious diseases at the University of Virginia.
“The only way they are alike is that they are both pills,” Petri said.
Dr. Kevin J. Downes, assistant professor of pediatrics at the Perelman School of Medicine of the University of Pennsylvania, agreed, “They are dramatically different molecules. The drugs are different in their structure and their molecular size.”
[...]
Ivermectin binds to glutamate-gated chloride channels and is used to treat parasite infections, said Joseph Glajch, a consultant in pharmaceutical and analytical chemistry.

“These two are so far apart,” he said. “If you look at how they interact with the body..., they don’t even go to the same pathways or receptors.”'

https://apnews.com/article/fact-checking-067310377629

Re: Pfizer's oral Covid-19 antiviral cuts hospitalization, death by 85%

#80

Post by mbreese » Fri, Nov 05, 2021, 1:57 PM UTC

fullstackchris wrote: post #38

Did anyone hear NPR's reporting on this? They said the early study was originally halted BECAUSE of it's positive effects at preventing hospitalization and death... very weird, I hope it is a typo or I'm understanding it wrong...

I haven’t read anything about this study, but this is common for highly effective treatments.

Let’s say you have a randomized clinical trial with a control arm (placebo) and test arm (drug). If the vast majority of the test cases do significantly better (like 90% of the test cases), at some point it becomes unethical to continue. Why? Because you already have the evidence that the treatment works, so having the control arm becomes meaningless. You already know that the drug works, so there is no longer a point to collect more data AND you know that the control arm isn’t going to help half the patients. So, you stop the trial early so that you can get started with the approval process so that the drug can get to all patients faster.