Notes from the Meeting on Python GIL Removal Between Python Core and Sam Gross

Post by vclal » Wed, Oct 27, 2021, 10:05 AM UTC

stkdump wrote: post #70

blackandsqueaky wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

12 references to people in one statement, 5 referring to the post author, 1 reference to social fraternity membership, 1 statement of authority. I'm not sure if there is a common name for this particular source of discomfort, but that quote definitely contains a lot of it. I'm a historical contributor to the Python source repository, but something about the social structure of the project has changed significantly in…

Without knowing anything about how python is being developed, but I know that the python 2 -> python 3 transition was nearly fatal. And from other projects I know that the easiest way to prevent such events is that you put people in charge. Such a fundamental change as getting rid of the GIL may well trigger a similar situation if not done well (and maybe even if done well). It is the choice to manage the current lim…

Post by BiteCode_dev » Wed, Oct 27, 2021, 10:33 AM UTC

vclal wrote: post #71

stkdump wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without knowing anything about how python is being developed, but I know that the python 2 -> python 3 transition was nearly fatal. And from other projects I know that the easiest way to prevent such events is that you put people in charge. Such a fundamental change as getting rid of the GIL may well trigger a similar situation if not done well (and maybe even if done well). It is the choice to manage the current lim…

The people have put themselves in charge. Some of them haven't even written a single large C extension, so how will they even judge the pain? They are good at self-promotion and corporate backed. Real work in the Python world is done by the quieter types who don't strive to "be in charge".

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Oct 27, 2021, 10:48 AM UTC

shepardrtc wrote: post #3

ctoth wrote: post #2

I can't help but read all the interjections from the core developers as a strong indication of why all these sorts of things tend to fail on the vine. From Unladen Swallow onward there have been these groups off doing interesting and awesome experiments to try and make Python faster, and they never actually make it into something that Python end-users can use (yes, I know US had shortcomings). This is the work of one…

> Would you prefer to support some weird arbitrary nameless closed source extensions, or have a multicore Python? There's nothing wrong with staying on an older LTS version of Python. Let the people with the nameless closed-source stuff stick with that. The beauty of open source is that they can fork the older, GIL-ful version of Python and maintain it, if they like. Multicore would be a tremendous boon to the langua…

Post by milliams » Wed, Oct 27, 2021, 11:06 AM UTC

blackandsqueaky wrote: post #58

frazbin wrote: post #25

I think there's a pretty good chance this stuff gets incorporated: "On a personal level, we are impressed by Sam’s work so far and invited him to join the CPython project. I’m happy to report he is interested, and to help him ramp up to become a core developer, I will be mentoring him. Guido and Neil Schemenauer will help me review code for the interpreter bits I’m unfamiliar with."

12 references to people in one statement, 5 referring to the post author, 1 reference to social fraternity membership, 1 statement of authority. I'm not sure if there is a common name for this particular source of discomfort, but that quote definitely contains a lot of it. I'm a historical contributor to the Python source repository, but something about the social structure of the project has changed significantly in…

Post by Redoubts » Wed, Oct 27, 2021, 11:09 AM UTC

blackandsqueaky wrote: post #58

frazbin wrote: post #25

I think there's a pretty good chance this stuff gets incorporated: "On a personal level, we are impressed by Sam’s work so far and invited him to join the CPython project. I’m happy to report he is interested, and to help him ramp up to become a core developer, I will be mentoring him. Guido and Neil Schemenauer will help me review code for the interpreter bits I’m unfamiliar with."

12 references to people in one statement, 5 referring to the post author, 1 reference to social fraternity membership, 1 statement of authority. I'm not sure if there is a common name for this particular source of discomfort, but that quote definitely contains a lot of it. I'm a historical contributor to the Python source repository, but something about the social structure of the project has changed significantly in…