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My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

mattlakeman.org

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Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#71

Post by notJim »

mmastrac wrote: post #9

Would providing free and clean heroin in safe, monitored sites be a solution? Starve the black market of clients, give people support and safety when they need it, as well as the time required to get their life back together enough to take a leap.

I think it would be better if there was a little more of a barrier, like you had to get a prescription from a doctor or addiction counselor, but it was free. I think we should allow people already addicted to use clean/safe drugs in safe places, but we should be careful about lowering the barrier for those who are not already using.

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#72

Post by bsder »

ioseph wrote: post #38
colinmhayes wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure you understand how good heroin feels. Nothing comes close, especially not Tennis or a wonderful community. I tried heroin once, and I regret it every day, because I am 100% positive that I will never again be as happy as I was that day. If I didn't have what is effectively a dream job I'm sure that I'd be a heroin addict.

That was certainly not my experience, it was an intense physical pleasure but ultimately devoid of mental depth. Having tried most drugs I really think the whole addicted after one dose is bullshit and it's far more about your social economic circumstances. It's much more tempting to seek out another hit if you have nothing better to do that day.

I think it's highly variable.

Some people love opiates. Personally, I hate the feel of opiates. My brain feels like it's encased in concrete. This is not a good feeling to me.

I consider myself fortunate that I don't like the feel of opiates as it means that I didn't become addicted to them from the times I needed them medically.

I will, however, point out that musicians almost universally warn other musicians not to do heroin even once. Musicians aren't exactly straight-laced, and, if they're warning you about something, you probably ought to listen.

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#73

Post by gaganyaan »

SkittyDog wrote: post #22
mmastrac wrote: post #9

Would providing free and clean heroin in safe, monitored sites be a solution? Starve the black market of clients, give people support and safety when they need it, as well as the time required to get their life back together enough to take a leap.

Given what we have observed with alcohol, cannibis, and prescription drugs, I think it's safe I expect that decriminalization, legal suppliers, and free drugs would probably not reduce recreational use & abuse of opiates in America... If anything, I would expect usage to increase. Don't get me wrong: I am absolutely in favor of decriminalization, as well as other radical changes in our society's relationships with dr…

I think legalization is the only real solution, but you bring up a good point about alcohol. The best approach there is preventative, and do things like strictly ban all advertising of all drugs, before there's a strong lobby to prevent that from being enacted. We should really ban advertising of alcohol and prescription drugs too, but there's unfortunately vested interests that make that a hard task.

I think the ideal system is some sort of government-run one that is not out to profit, and keep on suggesting that maybe you don't need any drugs, but will give you some if you insist and are willing to watch a safety video.

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#74

Post by yholio »

klyrs wrote: post #21
tyingq wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine it would help with the fentanyl issue. I don't think that anyone would buy fentanyl if they had access to known real heroin that wasn't expensive.

I wish this was true. Fentanyl has demand, both all on its own, and cut into other substances for the extra kick. I'm reluctantly convinced that a free clinic should have it on the menu.

It's not a menu, it's a place where you go to get a clean, safe fix for your opioid addiction.

You get what you get, the best opioid or analogue that the doctors decide to give you, possibly with a slow release mechanism that avoids the rush but allows you function throughout the day, hold a job, not stick the first AIDS-infected needle in your vein etc.

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#75

Post by abraxas »

mmastrac wrote: post #9

Would providing free and clean heroin in safe, monitored sites be a solution? Starve the black market of clients, give people support and safety when they need it, as well as the time required to get their life back together enough to take a leap.

It would help for sure. My cousin died not because of overdose but because he shared needles and contracted hepatitis which turned into hepatoma. If safe injection sites had been available he might still be alive.

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#76

Post by yholio »

germinalphrase wrote: post #51
wespiser_2018 wrote: post #24

Good write up. The US is really grappling with diseases of despair, and heroin/fentanyl addition is on of the biggest ones impacting the wellbeing of our society. A massive slice of talent and raw human resource is just dying every year, but the solutions that have worked in other countries are just impossible to implement here due because the the methods that are known to work are politically dead on arrival. I'm a…

“ The effect on new users would be profound as well: as all the current users naturally age out of wanting to use hard drugs, the majority of drug dealers (other users themselves), won't have the capability to introduce new people to hard drugs” Why do you believe this to be true?

Giving free, safe drugs will depress demand for illegal drugs: most dealers are users, and are pushed to a high risk criminal activity - drug dealing - in order to finance their expensive habit. They take extraordinary risk for this, including actively seeking out new clients.

If you give out free product, you not only kill the primary demand, but most dealers themselves don't have a reason to continue taking risks - because they can benefit from the free product too.

Purely profit oriented dealers will remain in the market, which is now much smaller and even riskier, since they can only sell to recreational users.

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#77

Post by haskellandchill »

germinalphrase wrote: post #51
wespiser_2018 wrote: post #24

Good write up. The US is really grappling with diseases of despair, and heroin/fentanyl addition is on of the biggest ones impacting the wellbeing of our society. A massive slice of talent and raw human resource is just dying every year, but the solutions that have worked in other countries are just impossible to implement here due because the the methods that are known to work are politically dead on arrival. I'm a…

“ The effect on new users would be profound as well: as all the current users naturally age out of wanting to use hard drugs, the majority of drug dealers (other users themselves), won't have the capability to introduce new people to hard drugs” Why do you believe this to be true?

It's just how it works. There are diminishing returns to the common drugs of abuse. If given access to high quality drugs of abuse without negative economic and social consequences the body will adapt, use will plateau, and for the majority eventually phase out. A minority will choice to maintain. There are negative health consequences to long term maintenance but it's not like the reality of obtaining poor quaility street drugs in dangerous situtations. It's data driven and based on medical theory so it's not much of a belief. See Swiss and UK medical heroin programs for evidence.

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#78

Post by headgasket »

It’s probably a bad forum for this opinion, but I have a relative struggling with addiction and resulting mental issues ( resulting form substance abuse; he was highly functional and threw it all away), and because of this I made a 180 and think some form of prohibition for hard stuff is the only action that would help us. How to put that cat in the bag is anyone’s guess.

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#79

Post by SkittyDog »

gaganyaan wrote: post #73
SkittyDog wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given what we have observed with alcohol, cannibis, and prescription drugs, I think it's safe I expect that decriminalization, legal suppliers, and free drugs would probably not reduce recreational use & abuse of opiates in America... If anything, I would expect usage to increase. Don't get me wrong: I am absolutely in favor of decriminalization, as well as other radical changes in our society's relationships with dr…

I think legalization is the only real solution, but you bring up a good point about alcohol. The best approach there is preventative, and do things like strictly ban all advertising of all drugs, before there's a strong lobby to prevent that from being enacted. We should really ban advertising of alcohol and prescription drugs too, but there's unfortunately vested interests that make that a hard task. I think the ide…

There is a big problem with your first sentence, possibly semantic. You said: "I think legalization is the only real solution..." Legalization alone is NOT a solution, and it WILL result in increased rates of abuse, addiction, death, and human misery if other changes are not implemented concurrently with legalization.

I understand why people want to focus on legalization of drugs. It's a simple idea, with precedent in th US and many other countries, and it doesn't require expanding goverment spending or power. But it's just too simplistic to be useful. We cannot limit the harms caused by addictive behavior with pure Libertarian self-interest, because addiction IS a self-interested response to larger problems that the addict lacks the capability to handle, emotionally.

If we want to truly reduce the addiction, death, and suffering, we need to develop real, effective social services that help families and individuals on many, many levels. We need to plug the gaps in our children's emotional upbringings, which means permanently repairing the jagged indifference of our society that inflicts so much harm, in the first place.

In short, we need to let go of our fear of collective social welfare programs, and start truly giving a shit about each other.

Re: My experience of losing a friend to heroin (2020)

#80

Post by somethoughts »

wespiser_2018 wrote: post #24

Good write up. The US is really grappling with diseases of despair, and heroin/fentanyl addition is on of the biggest ones impacting the wellbeing of our society. A massive slice of talent and raw human resource is just dying every year, but the solutions that have worked in other countries are just impossible to implement here due because the the methods that are known to work are politically dead on arrival. I'm a…

It'd be interesting if there were any country wide experiments that are similar to the approach that has been taken with tobacco. Basically legalize it for those over 18, slap it silly with warning labels and then tax the heck out it to make it prohibitively expensive. And raise the tax every year. And then fund ad campaigns and social media campaigns which make it generally look dumb and unfashionable as well as treatments.

But perhaps the addictive qualities and treatment is much greater than tobacco.

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