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After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

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Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#71

Post by uselesscynicism »

thanatos519 wrote: post #64
soared wrote: post #39

Meh. I’ve seen a lot of these short essays about how after the pandemic we either should not or simply will not return to the status quo. It doesn’t really do anything to say “the economy doesn’t work” in 5 paragraphs and then say nothing else. Yes, lots of poor people are getting screwed. Some jobs don’t pay well despite the higher moral standing of directly assisting others. The environment looks pretty bad. But yo…

No economy, please. The current system created artificial scarcity which kept many people poor and a few people rich. We didn't actually need to consume until the planet was ruined, but we did. Now we are all screwed because real scarcity is returning and we still don't know how to share.

Reality creates scarcity. The "current system" produces a modern society with so much abundance that people like you have forgotten that scarcity of everything is the natural state and the "system" is responsible for artificial ABUNDANCE, not scarcity.

Yes, there are edge cases like intellectual property but "no economy please" is the kind of thing someone who is completely ignorant to the nature of reality would say.

Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#72

Post by DeathArrow »

Another guy gets angry and rightly so.

But apart from that angriness - which I can find some simpaty for - the article does not tell us anything.

Nothing about the complicate reasons our society is in this state. Nothing about some solutions to make it better.

Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#73

Post by barrenko »

q-base wrote: post #16
sleepysysadmin wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I had somehow missed that he died. What a shame. He wrote one of the most interesting, fascinating and influential books I have ever read. Which one might I ask? Bullshit jobs is pretty big, but debt: the first 5000 years is quite good.

Debt: The first 500 years - I found it extremely interesting.

The ascent of Money is also good.

Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#74

Post by montagg »

zohch wrote: post #66
thanatos519 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No economy, please. The current system created artificial scarcity which kept many people poor and a few people rich. We didn't actually need to consume until the planet was ruined, but we did. Now we are all screwed because real scarcity is returning and we still don't know how to share.

> The current system created artificial scarcity The current system has been responsible for creating actual abundance that has vastly improved the living conditions of the vast majority of people. Scarcity is the default state, not artificial.

Abundance for some. Built on scarcity for others.

Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#75

Post by dTal »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #62
soared wrote: post #39

Meh. I’ve seen a lot of these short essays about how after the pandemic we either should not or simply will not return to the status quo. It doesn’t really do anything to say “the economy doesn’t work” in 5 paragraphs and then say nothing else. Yes, lots of poor people are getting screwed. Some jobs don’t pay well despite the higher moral standing of directly assisting others. The environment looks pretty bad. But yo…

Did you expect a new country wise economic model to be purposed in this article? I believe the author was trying to say, "Poor people are getting screwed, some jobs dont pay well, the environment is bad, lets do something and not forget it." It is a solution? No. I don't think it is trying to be though. It's just trying to be a reminder that letting everything go back to the way it was is the easiest route forward an…

"The country"? What country is that? These issues seem pretty global.

Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#76

Post by jdgoesmarching »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #62
soared wrote: post #39

Meh. I’ve seen a lot of these short essays about how after the pandemic we either should not or simply will not return to the status quo. It doesn’t really do anything to say “the economy doesn’t work” in 5 paragraphs and then say nothing else. Yes, lots of poor people are getting screwed. Some jobs don’t pay well despite the higher moral standing of directly assisting others. The environment looks pretty bad. But yo…

Did you expect a new country wise economic model to be purposed in this article? I believe the author was trying to say, "Poor people are getting screwed, some jobs dont pay well, the environment is bad, lets do something and not forget it." It is a solution? No. I don't think it is trying to be though. It's just trying to be a reminder that letting everything go back to the way it was is the easiest route forward an…

Agreed. This article is pretty clear about its intent: don’t be lulled into a false sense of economic security after the pandemic and build this experience into our understanding of our system.

The first step of any solution is convincing people there is a problem. Not just the obvious “things are bad,” but an understanding that these issues are systemic in a way that challenges American ideology. These articles frustrate HN because they aren’t pitching some technocratic reformism, but instead are seeding ideas about the structure of our society that need to be absorbed before we can hope to change it.

I’m honestly surprised to see this pop up at all here, HN isn’t a crowd that is demographically primed to challenge the assumptions of capitalisms.

Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#77

Post by vinceguidry »

zohch wrote: post #66
thanatos519 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No economy, please. The current system created artificial scarcity which kept many people poor and a few people rich. We didn't actually need to consume until the planet was ruined, but we did. Now we are all screwed because real scarcity is returning and we still don't know how to share.

> The current system created artificial scarcity The current system has been responsible for creating actual abundance that has vastly improved the living conditions of the vast majority of people. Scarcity is the default state, not artificial.

The 'vast majority of people' have not had their lives improved. They were, and still are, given a Squid Game-esque choice to either participate in a status-seeking game to destroy your health for someone else's comfort or exist in total squalor, dependent on other people who are destroying their health so that you can exist on the crumbs they throw your way.

Capitalism seems more or less benign in affluent nations which can afford to value individual life at millions of dollars. You can rest assured that the homeless people you ignore aren't going to starve, that they'll just buy drugs with the money you'd have given them anyway. It's easy to squint your eyes and believe in the system.

It's much harder to look at countries were life is much much cheaper and accept that the system is a net improver of lives rather than one of enforced stagnation. Where getting people fed, clothed and housed is a matter of politics, not logistics. Everywhere you go in the developing world, you see politics, by that I mean rich people preserving their riches, keeping the people willing to do the legwork and work out the logistics, from following through on their altruistic missions.

We need to stop pretending the system designed to make people feel better about exploiting whatever they can in self-interest is the arbiter of human worth.

Scarcity could go away tomorrow if the rent-seekers could just get out of the way.

Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#78

Post by wefarrell »

soared wrote: post #39

Meh. I’ve seen a lot of these short essays about how after the pandemic we either should not or simply will not return to the status quo. It doesn’t really do anything to say “the economy doesn’t work” in 5 paragraphs and then say nothing else. Yes, lots of poor people are getting screwed. Some jobs don’t pay well despite the higher moral standing of directly assisting others. The environment looks pretty bad. But yo…

At the very least we need Federally mandated sick days. My mother caught COVID at the beginning of March of 2020 from a coworker who knew her husband had it but continued to come into work out of fear of losing her job. It's crazy that it would happen again during the next pandemic.

Meanwhile 20 years after 9/11 we're still taking off our shoes to get on airplanes.

Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#79

Post by astura »

jk20 wrote: post #56
refurb wrote: post #48

Wasn’t this guys book on bullshit jobs completely debunked? I mean yeah, filing TPS sheets might seem pointless on their own but in the grand scheme of things someone needs to checkboxes. It might be unglamorous work but it necessary for the whole system to function. We talk about productivity gains and why we still work 40 hour weeks and my answer is always this - you’re free to trade those productivity gains for fr…

How was the book on bullshit jobs debunked? The idea is that many jobs do not contribute to "technology,healthcare,engineering, etc.", rather, salaries and work assignments are regulated to simply force people to spend most of their lives doing meaningless activities as a form of social control. Even Ted Kaczynski talked about "surrogate activities".

HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27392455

Re: After the pandemic, we can’t go back to sleep (2020)

#80

Post by qsort »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #62
soared wrote: post #39

Meh. I’ve seen a lot of these short essays about how after the pandemic we either should not or simply will not return to the status quo. It doesn’t really do anything to say “the economy doesn’t work” in 5 paragraphs and then say nothing else. Yes, lots of poor people are getting screwed. Some jobs don’t pay well despite the higher moral standing of directly assisting others. The environment looks pretty bad. But yo…

Did you expect a new country wise economic model to be purposed in this article? I believe the author was trying to say, "Poor people are getting screwed, some jobs dont pay well, the environment is bad, lets do something and not forget it." It is a solution? No. I don't think it is trying to be though. It's just trying to be a reminder that letting everything go back to the way it was is the easiest route forward an…

> Did you expect a new country wise economic model to be purposed in this article?

No, I didn't, but I'm frankly growing tired of cookie-cutter article like this one that just enumerate problems that have existed since the literal dawn of civilization.

The entire "economy bad" brigade is, as parent comment puts it, "r/im14andthisisdeep". They see problems everyone else sees, but they don't have any actual insight, just empty rethoric.

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