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Worldcoin

worldcoin.org

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Re: Worldcoin

#71

Post by chrisco255 »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #28

So, my understanding of the current play in this space is as follows: - Create a large number of worthless cryptographic tokens. - Distribute around half of them as "freebies". - Keep the other half to yourself / distribute them among your investors. - Start a hype by injecting your investors money into your currency. - Hope that people will start to trade/speculate with your currency, buying it for real monies. - As…

- Create a large number of worthless C-corp shares for a company with zero revenue - Distribute 100% to the founders - Onboard new investors through a series of progressively higher valuations, diluting less and less with each subsequent round - Go public at a lofty, inflated valuation that leaves retail with little to zero chance at producing the 100x gains that early investors got to experience - Profit!

Money is simply a representation of value. If you can create value out of "thin air", or even the perception of value out of thin air, then you can make a profit. That much has always been true.

What gives the C-Corp shares value, particularly the ones that trade at very high P/E ratios? Speculation on future growth, speculation on potential dividends, speculation on favorable market conditions, speculation on quantitative easing bringing yet more trillions flowing into stock market, etc.

What's interesting to me, is that people think our US Federal Reserve fiat monetary system is not an MLM scheme in the same way. We know who profits from the existing system: the older participants who got in early. We know who's been totally screwed by the current system: millennials and Gen Zers who can't afford housing, saddled with debt, living with their parents in their 30s:

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2020/09/04/a-majority-...

Re: Worldcoin

#72

Post by thebean11 »

aeternum wrote: post #56
thebean11 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204587 > Touch ID doesn't store any images of your fingerprint, and instead relies only on a mathematical representation. It isn't possible for someone to reverse engineer your actual fingerprint image from this stored data.

Remember when Apple claimed similar about their CSAM photo-scanning but then it turned out it was pretty easy to generate a hash collision? AFAIK Apple has not opened their TouchID hash scheme so you must take them at their word that it cannot be reverse engineered.

Sure, I think there are a million attack vectors for getting these "orbs" to send the same person money multiple times. Crafting a face that doesn't generate a hash collision (which would be the goal here) is probably an even easier problem!

I'm just pointing out that perceptual hashes do exist.

Re: Worldcoin

#74

Post by 0xBA5ED »

Let me guess: Nobody has access to the data because it is encrypted from literally everyone so there will never be any conflicts of interest ever, right?

Re: Worldcoin

#75

Post by dragonwriter »

nikanj wrote: post #42
ThePhysicist wrote: post #28

So, my understanding of the current play in this space is as follows: - Create a large number of worthless cryptographic tokens. - Distribute around half of them as "freebies". - Keep the other half to yourself / distribute them among your investors. - Start a hype by injecting your investors money into your currency. - Hope that people will start to trade/speculate with your currency, buying it for real monies. - As…

Governments ultimately execute the wishes and wants of citizens at large, and voters have collectively given a resounding yea to get-rich-fast crypto lotteries.

> Governments ultimately execute the wishes and wants of citizens at large

Not really; no (even theoretically democratic) has a flat distribution of citizen political power for that to be true in general; it is true in cases where the general opinion happens to be in line with elite opinion, or so strong as to overcome the power inequalities, but otherwise governments act according to elite opinion, not general popular will.

Re: Worldcoin

#76

Post by esnard »

squidproquo wrote: post #53

I think the overarching idea here makes sense, but the devil is in the details. 1) It's going to be difficult to ensure that the 'Orb' device can't be hacked and allow bad actors to send a bunch of random codes to signup for a Worldcoin. 2) If there are bogus signups how do you deal with reconciliation when there are ID collisions? 3) It's going to take many years for this to get a critical traction and to deploy coi…

Their "how it works" page has a whole section dedicated to your first question:

> Spoofing attacks involve presenting the Orb with modified, fake, or non-human irises. For example, an attacker might show the Orb a photo of an iris or an animal iris, hoping to generate a unique IrisHash. To defend against attacks like this, we’ve equipped the Orb with a suite of multi-spectral sensors and custom fraud-detection algorithms. This advanced anti-spoofing system complements the iris imaging system, and operates locally on each device.

> The Orb is also resilient to various forms of tampering, including attempts to modify its software, extract its cryptographic secrets, or disable its anti-spoofing system. This resilience is critical, since any of these intrusions might allow a hacker to generate fraudulent IrisHashes. The Orb’s embedded systems reliably detect advanced attacks of this kind, and prevent corresponding fraud.

> To further increase the difficulty of an attack, Orbs will be remotely monitored and compared to other Orbs. Such monitoring is based on non-biometric metadata from the Orb, including battery level, temperature, and network strength. Anomalies will be flagged and lead to Orbs being deactivated. This anomaly detection happens in a controlled environment in the cloud and therefore comes with higher security guarantees than device-level spoof and tamper detection.

Re: Worldcoin

#77

Post by skybrian »

ThePhysicist wrote: post #28

So, my understanding of the current play in this space is as follows: - Create a large number of worthless cryptographic tokens. - Distribute around half of them as "freebies". - Keep the other half to yourself / distribute them among your investors. - Start a hype by injecting your investors money into your currency. - Hope that people will start to trade/speculate with your currency, buying it for real monies. - As…

To be fair, Keeping a lot of stock for yourself and self-promotion is also how successful startup founders make money.

The pump and dump aspect is that the reasons given why anyone should value the token are flimsy. If they were solid then it would just be a good investment.

There is a mechanic at the heart of investment that, purified of anything resembling social worth, becomes a gambling game that people can play for fun, despite knowing that it has no other value.

Re: Worldcoin

#78

Post by nikanj »

vorpalhex wrote: post #64
lijogdfljk wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where? In some parts of the world, ahem, it sounds like that would infringe on our "freedoms".

Name a functioning country that doesn't have chargebacks, small claims or commerce law.

Lack of which is one of the main selling points of cryptos.

Re: Worldcoin

#79

Post by lijogdfljk »

vorpalhex wrote: post #64
lijogdfljk wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where? In some parts of the world, ahem, it sounds like that would infringe on our "freedoms".

Name a functioning country that doesn't have chargebacks, small claims or commerce law.

Well i took from your reply that you challenged the notion that citizens have _not_ wanted the get-rich-quick crypto jazz.

I wasn't saying that chargebacks don't exist. I was saying that the government dictating that you cannot lose all your money in a foolish endeavor would, in some parts be seen as infringing on your "freedoms".

Force safety nets was the discussion, as i took it. And some countries are resoundingly against forced safety nets.

Re: Worldcoin

#80

Post by thebean11 »

esnard wrote: post #76
squidproquo wrote: post #53

I think the overarching idea here makes sense, but the devil is in the details. 1) It's going to be difficult to ensure that the 'Orb' device can't be hacked and allow bad actors to send a bunch of random codes to signup for a Worldcoin. 2) If there are bogus signups how do you deal with reconciliation when there are ID collisions? 3) It's going to take many years for this to get a critical traction and to deploy coi…

Their "how it works" page has a whole section dedicated to your first question: > Spoofing attacks involve presenting the Orb with modified, fake, or non-human irises. For example, an attacker might show the Orb a photo of an iris or an animal iris, hoping to generate a unique IrisHash. To defend against attacks like this, we’ve equipped the Orb with a suite of multi-spectral sensors and custom fraud-detection algori…

> The Orb is also resilient to various forms of tampering, including attempts to modify its software, extract its cryptographic secrets, or disable its anti-spoofing system. This resilience is critical, since any of these intrusions might allow a hacker to generate fraudulent IrisHashes. The Orb’s embedded systems reliably detect advanced attacks of this kind, and prevent corresponding fraud.

Doubt. In the end this is a device collecting signals, signing them cryptographically, and sending them to the cloud. If there's an economic incentive someone will find a way to get it to sign fake signals.

There's also the centralization issue, where the manufacturer of these orbs essentially has total control over producing the currency.

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