Nestlé to Debut Plant-Based Eggs, Shrimp • Hacker News Board

Re: Nestlé to Debut Plant-Based Eggs, Shrimp

#71

Post by sampo » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 11:11 PM UTC

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #43

jayspell wrote: post #22

I have one question... Why?

https://ipbes.net/sites/default/files/2020-02/ipbes_global_a... Page 28: >Globally, land-use change is the direct driver with the largest relative impact on terrestrial and freshwater ecosystems, while direct exploitation of fish and seafood has the largest relative impact in the oceans (well established) (Figure SPM.2) {2.2.6.2}. >Over one third of the world’s land surface and nearly three-quarters of available fres…

According to this [1], producing tofu for protein consumes more energy (fuels), and emits more greenhouse gases, than producing chicken. Tofu wins in total calories produced, but chicken wins if we only look at the amount of protein produced.

We don't know what fraction of plants can be used to produce these plant-based egg and shrimp, what what happens to the parts of the plants that they were not able to put into use in these products. We don't know if they are more or less efficient way to turn plants into protein, than poultry or dairy.

[1] Tables B2, B3 in https://www.ioes.ucla.edu/wp-content/uploads/soy-vs-animal-p...

Re: Nestlé to Debut Plant-Based Eggs, Shrimp

#72

Post by RhysU » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 11:24 PM UTC

lapetitejort wrote: post #48

drukenemo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. Another issue I take with these substitutes are the amount of ingredients used to make the fake counterparts. Whilst a burger is most meat, a “veggie burger” contains dozens of highly processed ones.

There's three classes of veggies burgers to me: the old fake patties, such as Boca burger; the newer, less pretentious patties full of recognizable veggies; and the latest, ultra-processed fake meat, such as Impossible and Beyond. The second class, the ones not afraid to show they're just beans, grains, and veggies shaped like a disk, are the most appealing to me. They're also the most versatile.

As a meat eater I liked the occasional Boca burger. They were always just stupid expensive (recollecting college) and never stuck in my mind as a periodic way to reduce meat consumption.

But I am one of those people with a hybrid only because I like the gas mileage.

Re: Nestlé to Debut Plant-Based Eggs, Shrimp

#73

Post by elif » Mon, Oct 11, 2021, 11:53 PM UTC

oppositelock wrote: post #6

I remember when margarine, and other plant based fats were being touted as the healthier alternative to animal fats, and in the end, it turned out that these artificially oxidized plant oils ended up being a direct cause of heart disease. I'm afraid of products such as these for the same reason, because we have no long term health data. I'm happy to eat plants of all sorts, in their natural form. A slurry of plant fa…

you don't think there's long term health data for things like pea protein, soy protein, and omega-3 fatty acids?

Re: Nestlé to Debut Plant-Based Eggs, Shrimp

#74

Post by dang » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 12:45 AM UTC

opinionbanned wrote: post #8

oppositelock wrote: post #6

I remember when margarine, and other plant based fats were being touted as the healthier alternative to animal fats, and in the end, it turned out that these artificially oxidized plant oils ended up being a direct cause of heart disease. I'm afraid of products such as these for the same reason, because we have no long term health data. I'm happy to eat plants of all sorts, in their natural form. A slurry of plant fa…

don't be anti-plant

I've banned this account for trolling. Doing this on HN will get your main account banned as well, so please don't.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Nestlé to Debut Plant-Based Eggs, Shrimp

#75

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 1:09 AM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #16

oppositelock wrote: post #6

I remember when margarine, and other plant based fats were being touted as the healthier alternative to animal fats, and in the end, it turned out that these artificially oxidized plant oils ended up being a direct cause of heart disease. I'm afraid of products such as these for the same reason, because we have no long term health data. I'm happy to eat plants of all sorts, in their natural form. A slurry of plant fa…

I'm happy to eat plants of all sorts, in their natural form. A slurry of plant fats and proteins which approximates eggs sounds like nasty factory runoff. I don't get this trend anyway. There are lots of perfectly good vegetarian dishes out there. Why do we have to whore out the food industry to the tastes of meat eaters in the name of saving the planet ? Can't wannabe "virtuous" meat eaters learn to eat vegetarian f…

[deleted]

Re: Nestlé to Debut Plant-Based Eggs, Shrimp

#76

Post by jhanschoo » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 1:11 AM UTC

oppositelock wrote: post #6

I remember when margarine, and other plant based fats were being touted as the healthier alternative to animal fats, and in the end, it turned out that these artificially oxidized plant oils ended up being a direct cause of heart disease. I'm afraid of products such as these for the same reason, because we have no long term health data. I'm happy to eat plants of all sorts, in their natural form. A slurry of plant fa…

> A slurry of plant fats and proteins which approximates eggs sounds like nasty factory runoff.

Assuming that you're talking about all plant-based processed foods with this, you can pry tofu and vegan breads from my cold, dead hands.

Re: Nestlé to Debut Plant-Based Eggs, Shrimp

#77

Post by Klonoar » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 1:31 AM UTC

goldcd wrote: post #70

micromacrofoot wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I agree with you conceptually, that would be a better way to eat meat and I'd likely join in if that were our reality. But I think you may be overestimating how daring Americans are with food... or just how familiar they are with food in general. A lot of the country has almost a toddler-like relationship with food. They like what they like and you have to practically shove it down their throats to get them to try…

I'm only an infrequent visitor to the states - but I feel you're selling your country short. Everywhere I've been, there's been an immigrant selling their food - first place I randomly had Ethiopian food for example. But also my first Tamale, which seemed pretty normalized. I think people not being able to cook, is maybe the hurdle we need to clear - or not having the confidence to cook. My mum let me help out, I got…

I mean... I'm American, and I don't think they're selling us short.

>Whole Beyond Meat thing seems to be some weird stop-gap - filling a cheap-meat hole. "Just Stop Eating Cheap Meat"

For a variety of reasons (if nothing else, even just economics wise) this is unlikely to ever happen in America.

At the very least, we lose nothing by trying to solve the problem both ways - substitutes for the low end of eating to move people who wouldn't otherwise move, and better education/skills/etc for the general range of the population where it's lacking.

Re: Nestlé to Debut Plant-Based Eggs, Shrimp

#78

Post by staticassertion » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 2:15 AM UTC

DoreenMichele wrote: post #57

staticassertion wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like meat. It sucks, because I recognize the ethical implications of eating meat. I tried being vegan briefly and I dearly missed eggs. Saying "existing vegetarian food is good enough, let's not see what else we can do, everyone should just get over it" seems a bit silly to me.

Traditional vegetarian diets allow for eggs. Vegetarian and vegan mean different things. Your extremist attempt to go from presumably a meat-centered diet to absolutely no animal products at all is not really a counterpoint to anything I've said.

> Traditional vegetarian diets allow for eggs. Vegetarian and vegan mean different things.

Yes... I'm aware. That's why I said vegan.

> Your extremist attempt to go from presumably a meat-centered diet to absolutely no animal products at all is not really a counterpoint to anything I've said.

Your post was hardly a formal argument to be taken down through rigor. You said you don't "get this trend", saying that there are already good vegetarian meals. I explained that I would like more vegetarian meals to replace things like eggs.

If you think this wasn't a "counterpoint", examine your own post first.

Re: Nestlé to Debut Plant-Based Eggs, Shrimp

#79

Post by carstenhag » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 6:51 AM UTC

Klonoar wrote: post #37

libertine wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a terminology used to entice those who feel like they'd need a replacement for the things they're used to, and yet might have a bad perception of the plants used in these products (like eww that tastes bad ) - so it's a term for the general population. Also these products as mostly a combination of plants, like it wouldn't be right (or maybe even legal) to say that the vEGGie is soy eggs.

My pet theory is that it's actually because vegan and vegetarian are too charged of a term at this point. "Plant based" is fairly neutral and doesn't outright prescribe a hard line.

In Germany, most vegan products have a "Vegan", "Veganer" or similar prefix/suffix. Brands that don't really care about vegans but really just want the money then bring out "plant-based" products, because there are no rules around that adjective.

On Plant-Based burgers you could still have mayonnaise with eggs in it. Or sauces that aren't vegan.

Also, they try to go for people that are really against "vegan" food because "plant-based" sounds less aggressive. In my opinion (am vegan), it's bs.

Re: Nestlé to Debut Plant-Based Eggs, Shrimp

#80

Post by carstenhag » Tue, Oct 12, 2021, 6:55 AM UTC

sampo wrote: post #71

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://ipbes.net/sites/default/files/2020-02/ipbes_global_a... Page 28: >Globally, land-use change is the direct driver with the largest relative impact on terrestrial and freshwater ecosystems, while direct exploitation of fish and seafood has the largest relative impact in the oceans (well established) (Figure SPM.2) {2.2.6.2}. >Over one third of the world’s land surface and nearly three-quarters of available fres…

According to this [1], producing tofu for protein consumes more energy (fuels), and emits more greenhouse gases, than producing chicken. Tofu wins in total calories produced, but chicken wins if we only look at the amount of protein produced. We don't know what fraction of plants can be used to produce these plant-based egg and shrimp, what what happens to the parts of the plants that they were not able to put into u…

Vegans are vegans for many reasons, the environment is just one of them. Maybe Tofu is not as easy on the env as chicken, but on average a plant-based or completely vegan diet is way better than a meat/fish/milk/egg-based one.

Anecdote from Germany: Anti-Vegans or Meat-Conservatives always like to say "Yeah you vegans say your food is way better for the environment, but then you only eat avocados which need tons of water!!!" which is of course completely wrong (and the avocado water thing can be helped).