I wonder when this will get flagged?
The latest campus cancellation is different
71–80 of 520 posts
Re: The latest campus cancellation is different
#72I must admit, if there was a guy giving a lecture at my institution, and I was informed that he had made a Third Reich comparison while talking about admissions criteria, I'd be pretty opposed to the lecture going on. At the same time, I don't like the idea of succumbing to an online mob of sorts. It seems like MIT is thinking kind of like a business here. And perhaps that's the bigger problem – not only are campuses…
I used to think as you outlined here, and then I realised that I would only care if they made a Third Reich comparison that I disagreed with. If they said Milo is literally Hitler, I'd... well, I would have been very confused because Milo is a tasty chocolate drink. But I wouldn't have considered it an offense... so the offense wasn't actually the use of unspeakable comparisons, it was the sin of doing so while disagreeing with me!
So I try not to judge quite so quickly now, though I probably still fail plenty...
Re: The latest campus cancellation is different
#73I must admit, if there was a guy giving a lecture at my institution, and I was informed that he had made a Third Reich comparison while talking about admissions criteria, I'd be pretty opposed to the lecture going on. At the same time, I don't like the idea of succumbing to an online mob of sorts. It seems like MIT is thinking kind of like a business here. And perhaps that's the bigger problem – not only are campuses…
> "I must admit, if there was a guy giving a lecture at my institution, and I was informed that he had made a Third Reich comparison while talking about admissions criteria, I'd be pretty opposed to the lecture going on."
I believe that, broadly speaking, Hitler and Nazi references are beyond tired and cliche at this point. However, "disclaimers" such as this one are disappointing. Because silly Nazi references seem to be thrown around by everyone, and yet somehow it's only objectionable or worthy of challenge when the wrong people do it.
Re: The latest campus cancellation is different
#74How do we neuter the power of Twitter mobs? Seems like they can bully and intimidate any organization from universities to corporations to GitHub projects to kowtow to their demands. Their demands are usually to fire, boycott, or boot people with opinions that run afoul of the mob. Not a healthy precedent to set. We will regret this later if we continue down this path.
Start collecting data projecting the actual harm these people can cause if stood up to. I suspect it's minimal if analyzed rigorously. Then publish it. Promote it to data analysts. Blow away the paper tiger.
Re: The latest campus cancellation is different
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
Many such cases. That's why we need to look more closely at why the professional administrative class so eagerly does the wishes of activist mobs. Could it be that the activists and the administrators believe the same things?
That could be part of it. According to surveys the administrators are very left-wing, even more than the professors who are already almost completely left-wing themselves.
Yeah. Over the years I've seen a number of incidents where (someone in) the Harvard administration assumes that the student body, professors, and alumni universally share their view that Affirmative Action is an unquestionable good and then gets caught off guard when this turns out not to be the case.
Re: The latest campus cancellation is different
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
> How do we neuter the power of Twitter mobs? Stop listening to them? EDIT: That's especially effective since the Twitter mobs keep moving targets every couple of weeks anyway. They don't have any patience.
The power they have isn’t over us, it’s over institutions and businesses who seem to bend to the will of the mob. I’d like to see some data on whether a Twitter storm in a teacup has any measurable negative consequences for a typical large organization, and whether they need to listen as often as they do.
They don't have any power, other than to annoy the institution. The only power here is the power that MIT has over the people they book to speak, and since MIT doesn't want to be annoyed, they canceled the speaker.
The problem with cancel culture is a problem with bad employment law, and a problem with cultural institutions without any core ethical beliefs.
Re: The latest campus cancellation is different
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seems like a very simple solution. I struggle to see any material effect to MIT had they simply ignored these complainers.
Many such cases. That's why we need to look more closely at why the professional administrative class so eagerly does the wishes of activist mobs. Could it be that the activists and the administrators believe the same things?
They do the wishes of right-wing activist mobs, too, and the original victims of campus "cancel culture" were Palestinians.
Could it be that the administrators believe in nothing?
Re: The latest campus cancellation is different
#78I must admit, if there was a guy giving a lecture at my institution, and I was informed that he had made a Third Reich comparison while talking about admissions criteria, I'd be pretty opposed to the lecture going on. At the same time, I don't like the idea of succumbing to an online mob of sorts. It seems like MIT is thinking kind of like a business here. And perhaps that's the bigger problem – not only are campuses…
> made a Third Reich comparison while talking about admissions criteria, I'd be pretty opposed to the lecture going on.
Why??
Re: The latest campus cancellation is different
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
The power they have isn’t over us, it’s over institutions and businesses who seem to bend to the will of the mob. I’d like to see some data on whether a Twitter storm in a teacup has any measurable negative consequences for a typical large organization, and whether they need to listen as often as they do.
They don't have any power, other than to annoy the institution. The only power here is the power that MIT has over the people they book to speak, and since MIT doesn't want to be annoyed, they canceled the speaker. The problem with cancel culture is a problem with bad employment law, and a problem with cultural institutions without any core ethical beliefs.
The paradox of ethical relativism. Seems to run parallel with the paradox of tolerance.
Re: The latest campus cancellation is different
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a free speech context right so surely the answer is to convince the mobs that this current approach is counter-productive? Edit: I’m also unsure if this was caused by people on Twitter or staff and students at MIT who are also on Twitter. It seems like the latter is more correct and the Twitter side of things might be a red herring.
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I don’t think it’s been confirmed that these people are left wing authoritarians. It also seems like a dangerous way to think about this as a problem rationally. You’re basically deciding the facts of the matter outside of any actual evidence or argument.
Further writing people off sounds pretty authoritarian.