Ruqqus, an open source Reddit clone, is shutting down their main instance • Hacker News Board

Re: Ruqqus, an open source Reddit clone, is shutting down their main instance

#71

Post by noobermin » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 6:01 PM UTC

uabstraction wrote: post #31

dymk wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps in certain subreddits that's true, but on Reddit, it's easy to find both far right and far left echo chambers. And it's easy to find centrist communities. It's also easy to find communities where people don't talk about politics at all, and just discuss their favorite TV show or 3D printing filament without bringing anything else up. That's not the case on these other "free-speech" reddit clones - they're exc…

It's a mistake to think echo chambers are a phenomenon which only take place on the political extremes. Reddit itself is an echo chamber of tepid liberal orthodoxy and American exceptionalism, moderated by a former member of the Atlantic Council. A fish doesn't recognize the water it swims in. Redditors might call a place like Hexbear an echo chamber for instance, but it wasn't the members of Hexbear who chose to iso…

While this is true, I feel like there really is a difference between modern online communities and the ones that existed in the older era, before the so-called web 2.0 era. You can't escape bias at all, that should be any person's educated perspective, but there is a difference in degree that is sharper both on reddit and facebook groups and the like.

Ironically, twitter (which does skew left wing at least in some places), while having its host of issues, has a much lower degree of echo chamber-ness because there are no groups, everyone is thrown in a pot together. It does have the cancel mobs and all that but an echo chamber it is not, which at least proves "echo chamber" isn't the default final state of any social media platform.

Re: Ruqqus, an open source Reddit clone, is shutting down their main instance

#72

Post by l33tbro » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 6:01 PM UTC

jszymborski wrote: post #44

finfinfin wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you saying that it’s not categorically virtue signaling because someone can find value in that? Doesn’t sound logical to me. If the detail doesn’t contribute to the discussion but is meant to appease a specific group - that’s definitely closer to virtue signaling than to a genuine expression.

Again, I think the problem here is that you might not find that privilege acknowledgement contributes to the discussion, but there are plenty of people who acknowledge their privilege in the belief that it is contributing to the discussion. I think it's very telling that folk think that writing "I'm saying this from a position of privilege" invariably is done with a proverbial gun to their head, hoping to evade a pub…

I think you've misinterpreted them. The discussion is about the 'intention' of somebody mentioning privilidge, not the social merit of the act itself.

If one mentions it in a genuine way that is contextual to the discussion, then it is entirely appropriate. But if it is blithely and thoughtlessly tacked on to a preceding statement (which, let's face it, happens), then it gradually becomes a platitude and empties the acknowledgement of any charge or primacy when others are mentioning their privilige in a considered and good faith way.

Re: Ruqqus, an open source Reddit clone, is shutting down their main instance

#73

Post by pgeorgi » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 6:02 PM UTC

hunterb123 wrote: post #56

hluska wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bullshit. It’s generally acknowledged by everyone whose IQ exceeds their shoe size, that wishing death upon politicians is extremism. Stop defending this kind of shit - it’s not defensible no matter how much you clutch your pearls and whine about your freedumb.

So if I find you one instance where someone wished death on Reddit that has +1 upvote (like this submission) you'll concede that Reddit is an extremist site right?

The "one instance" thing only applies to that "patriots" site because you asserted "No one on [Patriots . win] is an extremist". It also doesn't show that the site is an "extremist site", only that your claim is wrong.

Your statement about reddit is a logical fallacy.

Re: Ruqqus, an open source Reddit clone, is shutting down their main instance

#74

Post by noobermin » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 6:02 PM UTC

xtracto wrote: post #14

dymk wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps in certain subreddits that's true, but on Reddit, it's easy to find both far right and far left echo chambers. And it's easy to find centrist communities. It's also easy to find communities where people don't talk about politics at all, and just discuss their favorite TV show or 3D printing filament without bringing anything else up. That's not the case on these other "free-speech" reddit clones - they're exc…

> it's easy to find both far right and far left echo chambers Could you point to 3 "far right echo chamber" active-ish (more than 50,000 subscribers) non-banned subreddits? For "far-left" I'd say: r/politics r/LateStageCapitalism and r/socialism EDIT: I knew this post was going to get heat. I consider myself a "leftist" (and by US standards I would be maybe consider a communist) but my point was that there is active…

r/politics isn't "far-left" although lsc and socialism are. There are also hosts of far-left subreddits that don't really reach r/all

Re: Ruqqus, an open source Reddit clone, is shutting down their main instance

#75

Post by l33tbro » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 6:04 PM UTC

devmunchies wrote: post #57

optimalsolver wrote: post #2

While these "free speech" Reddit alternatives end up taking a far-right tone, what's funny is how all discussions they host have to be approached from that angle. So you can't just talk about your favorite TV show. You have to first make a nod to how it features a Jewish conspiracy to push black-white interracial relationships. Only then can you go on to discuss the actual episode.

you had to do that on reddit every time you discussed trump. "I loathe that racist, I didn't vote for him, but I thought it was funny that he said... blah blah" conforming to groupthink and avoiding judgement by the ingroup is a major problem across the "free world". regardless of political leanings.

Reminds me now of 'I'm double-vaxed, but ..." when redditors criticize any aspect of the divisive issues around the pandemic.

Re: Ruqqus, an open source Reddit clone, is shutting down their main instance

#76

Post by shkkmo » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 6:04 PM UTC

xtracto wrote: post #14

dymk wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps in certain subreddits that's true, but on Reddit, it's easy to find both far right and far left echo chambers. And it's easy to find centrist communities. It's also easy to find communities where people don't talk about politics at all, and just discuss their favorite TV show or 3D printing filament without bringing anything else up. That's not the case on these other "free-speech" reddit clones - they're exc…

> it's easy to find both far right and far left echo chambers Could you point to 3 "far right echo chamber" active-ish (more than 50,000 subscribers) non-banned subreddits? For "far-left" I'd say: r/politics r/LateStageCapitalism and r/socialism EDIT: I knew this post was going to get heat. I consider myself a "leftist" (and by US standards I would be maybe consider a communist) but my point was that there is active…

> my point was that there is active censorship of right/far-right discourse in Reddit.

Politically biased rule enforcement is a bit different than having a community that invariably has to frame every unrelated thing in terms of a certain political ideology.

While your overall points are good, you derail a more more original comment into the standard partisan censorship discussion that happens over and over on HN.

Re: Ruqqus, an open source Reddit clone, is shutting down their main instance

#77

Post by hunterb123 » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 6:05 PM UTC

pgeorgi wrote: post #67

hunterb123 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you admit we are comparing two edge lords from opposing sides of the political spectrum. Thank you. You started this by mis-categorizing an edge lord as an "extremist".

I don't know them, so if you assert that they're an edgelord and not an extremist, I can only imagine that you do know them. Lacking any other information, and given a relative unimportance of that person to me, I'll take your word on that. Given the time you devote on the defense of that community, it's certainly more important to you than it is to me.

If you don't know them how did you assert they were an extremist in your original comment?

An extremist is likened to a terrorist, you need to have evidence other than some edgelord comment, otherwise they are just an edgelord.

Until proven otherwise you should assume they are the same as Reddit edgelords (actually most of them ARE or WERE Reddit edgelords!)

I'm not defending one community in particular, I'm defending everyone's right to be in the community they want without being dehumanized as some sort of monster racist.

Re: Ruqqus, an open source Reddit clone, is shutting down their main instance

#78

Post by noobermin » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 6:06 PM UTC

devmunchies wrote: post #57

optimalsolver wrote: post #2

While these "free speech" Reddit alternatives end up taking a far-right tone, what's funny is how all discussions they host have to be approached from that angle. So you can't just talk about your favorite TV show. You have to first make a nod to how it features a Jewish conspiracy to push black-white interracial relationships. Only then can you go on to discuss the actual episode.

you had to do that on reddit every time you discussed trump. "I loathe that racist, I didn't vote for him, but I thought it was funny that he said... blah blah" conforming to groupthink and avoiding judgement by the ingroup is a major problem across the "free world". regardless of political leanings.

Again, why are people equating weak virtue signaling about milquetoast democratic leanings with singaling about *Anti-semitic conspiracy* mongering? I think the issue isn't about signaling or "when in rome" sort of fitting in, it's that to signal you are part of a the community you have to appear super fringe.

Re: Ruqqus, an open source Reddit clone, is shutting down their main instance

#79

Post by hunterb123 » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 6:10 PM UTC

pgeorgi wrote: post #73

hunterb123 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if I find you one instance where someone wished death on Reddit that has +1 upvote (like this submission) you'll concede that Reddit is an extremist site right?

The "one instance" thing only applies to that "patriots" site because you asserted "No one on [Patriots . win] is an extremist". It also doesn't show that the site is an "extremist site", only that your claim is wrong. Your statement about reddit is a logical fallacy.

No, the supposed qualification to be an "extremist" was asserted by another that it was "wishing death".

I wish to apply that same standard to Reddit and see if it passes the same qualification to be "extremist" (it will).

tldr: I still haven't been shown a post on Patriots that is more extreme than anything I've seen on Reddit.

Re: Ruqqus, an open source Reddit clone, is shutting down their main instance

#80

Post by dale_glass » Fri, Oct 08, 2021, 6:11 PM UTC

1270018080 wrote: post #25

Is it possible to create a free speech reddit alternative that doesn't immediately turn into a right wing extremist site? My mind immediately turns to the Paradox of Tolerance, and I think the answer is no.

Probably not, because here's the thing: Reddit isn't all that restricted.

Reddit still has swear words, porn, angry arguments about politics and religion on any subject, people arguing that most any social norm should be done away with... now you'll have to find the right subreddit for that, but that's about the only problem.

You have to dig quite deep to bump into a subject that you won't find any outlet for. Even in the cases where a subreddit got banned, you can almost always go and express the same opinion in r/changemyview and not be kicked off the site.

This means that there's about 3 reasons to ever seek out an alternative:

1. You have an issue with the management. Eg, you object to how the company works and don't want to give them money/traffic.

2. You have a purely philosophical disagreement with how the site is run, even if it doesn't impact you personally. You're offended the code isn't Open Source, or that moderation exists, or that people aren't able to hate on fat people, even though your personal usage of the site is just posting cat pictures and not impacted.

3. Your interest is one of the banned subreddits and you're a persona non grata on Reddit.

Of the three, the third is by far the most likely, and they're going to swamp out any influence the first two might have easily.