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Twitch is hacked, and its source code leaked

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Re: Twitch is hacked, and its source code leaked

#71
post #53
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its still more secure. Rubber hose cryptanalysis applies to both equally, but that doesn't mean there aren't other attacks that apply to totp which don't to yubikeys. More secure != perfectly secure.

With a phone you need my passcode to accept to 2FA request (assuming lock screen notifications are disabled). I think yubikeys can work without a passcode as long you plug it in right?

They require a physical touch.

Re: Twitch is hacked, and its source code leaked

#72

Does it take a genius to figure out how to build twitch? It’s a modern crud app with video streaming.

I figure you could "build a Steam" in a couple of years, with the right engineers hitting the main features. There's very little magic at the technology level, and you can make life simpler and forget about minor things like the hardware survey or the pretty graphs. I'm not saying this is trivial, but it's definitely doable.

This is a far different statement than "You can build something and compete with Steam in a couple of years". Most of the really hard problems are not technical. Success ain't gonna happen without a bunch of pain, sweat, and strategic stumbles on the part of the competition.

Re: Twitch is hacked, and its source code leaked

#73
post #9

This is a pretty thorough and high profile hack on a major tech company - this isn't something I'd expect from an Amazon owned property. The hack (allegedly, I haven't downloaded it) includes * Entire git histories * Internal/Private AWS SDKs * Encrypted Password dumps and payout reports It's so comprehensive I'm very curious into how an attacker got that level of access. I can't think of another, large, corporate we…

How much of this is a holdover of lax security practices from before they were acquired? I can’t imagine AWS being managed in a way where local network access gives you keys to the kingdom. Then again, EC2 instance profiles do let you do quite a bit.

Conflating AWS security with twitch security is probably the wrong way to think about it.

Within Amazon those are almost going to be two entirely separate companies, with very different security focuses.

The idea that Amazon is monolithic and uniform wasn't true when I left there in 2006, and I'm certain it is less so now.

And that isn't just that its related to the merger, but that fundamentally its different business orgs with different focus.

Re: Twitch is hacked, and its source code leaked

#74
post #30
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It something I would expect security hardware to have automatically stopped. Even an employee shouldn't be able to download 125GB of stuff without flipping a safety switch somewhere.

Cue monorepo discussion

Cue "Don't check payment receipts into git" discussion - although I strongly suspect this hack wasn't just about acquiring appropriate credentials and then running `git clone`. It sounds to me like a backup service was compromised.

Re: Twitch is hacked, and its source code leaked

#75
post #67

Does it take a genius to figure out how to build twitch? It’s a modern crud app with video streaming.

Everything is just a crud app with a few extra steps.... yet you're not Zuckerberg or Dorsey

I’m so misread, Twitch is a lot of luck, so is all of these companies. Show me the the source code for luck. I don’t give a fuck if you leaked a video streaming crud app code lol.

Re: Twitch is hacked, and its source code leaked

#76
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's also strange that someone who has this level of access to what is presumably a multi-billion dollar company decided to just leak the data? Maybe they did try to ransom it, but I'd imagine someone with this kind of access inside Twitch must have had some creative way of making money. Notably, the initial leak didn't actually include the password data which the leaker claims to have, just source code and payment…

> It's possible that this first leak was just to establish trust so they can random or auction password hashes later. Password hashes are relatively useless though? Once the leak is announced I imagine most of the big targets will rotate their credentials. Then the next thing you need to do is spend possibly thousands in CPU time bruteforcing bcrypt hashes. Then I'm not sure what you can even do with those. I'm not c…

>Then I'm not sure what you can even do with those

Assume some end users used the same passwords on other, non-twitch accounts. That's what makes hacked passwords valuable, no matter where they came from.

Re: Twitch is hacked, and its source code leaked

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. Locking down and logging access to raw data like password hashes or payout information to only those who absolutely need it doesn't cause much annoyance and is very useful. It protects the company against rogue employees (not even strictly malicious, but also curious employees who want to see more than they should). It limits exposure if an employee's account gets hacked (my pet theory for this Twitch hac…

Note that it was code that was leaked. Preventing developers from leaking the codebase they are working with is outright impossible. Now combine that with a "monorepo" and even the most junior developer has access to practically the entire company codebase and version control history. And you can try to prevent them from accessing live/real customer data, but the cost is that they will never be able to debug issues i…

Of course, some stuff you can't avoid, especially code leaking. Luckily code isn't usually that interesting or useful to external parties which is the only reason it isn't leaked more.

For the rest of the stuff, there's a sliding scale. In no universe does your average twitch developer need raw access to password hashes, for example.

Re: Twitch is hacked, and its source code leaked

#78
post #53
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its still more secure. Rubber hose cryptanalysis applies to both equally, but that doesn't mean there aren't other attacks that apply to totp which don't to yubikeys. More secure != perfectly secure.

With a phone you need my passcode to accept to 2FA request (assuming lock screen notifications are disabled). I think yubikeys can work without a passcode as long you plug it in right?

Right, but presumably the site is already asking for a password, and if the attacker can bypass one password, im not sure its a safe assumption that they cant bypass two. However fair enough. Some yubikeys do involve fingerprint scans too though.

The main security benefit is unphishability. With yubikey/webauth crypto is used so you can't give the code to the wrong website. Phishing is a pretty major cause of account hacks generally, so pragmatically that is a very big win.

Re: Twitch is hacked, and its source code leaked

#79
post #13

This is a pretty thorough and high profile hack on a major tech company - this isn't something I'd expect from an Amazon owned property. The hack (allegedly, I haven't downloaded it) includes * Entire git histories * Internal/Private AWS SDKs * Encrypted Password dumps and payout reports It's so comprehensive I'm very curious into how an attacker got that level of access. I can't think of another, large, corporate we…

> It's also strange that someone who has this level of access to what is presumably a multi-billion dollar company decided to just leak the data? Maybe they did try to ransom it, but I'd imagine someone with this kind of access inside Twitch must have had some creative way of making money. Notably, the initial leak didn't actually include the password data which the leaker claims to have, just source code and payment…

Doesn't seem likely to me. If the attacker has password hashes then they would want to keep this attack quiet so that the buyer of the hashes would have time to compute the passwords. If Twitch gets wind of this happening then a simple password reset would foil any efforts.

Re: Twitch is hacked, and its source code leaked

#80

This is a pretty thorough and high profile hack on a major tech company - this isn't something I'd expect from an Amazon owned property. The hack (allegedly, I haven't downloaded it) includes * Entire git histories * Internal/Private AWS SDKs * Encrypted Password dumps and payout reports It's so comprehensive I'm very curious into how an attacker got that level of access. I can't think of another, large, corporate we…

From an ethical standpoint, any code that amplifies and profits from radical speech should be fair game for release. If employees or hackers feel the need to release info in that regard, so be it. This is the risk defined in such models and should be mitigated accordingly.

Who decides what speech is radical enough to compromise the privacy of users?

And if speech is "radical" meaning to the point of illegality, shouldn't the legal system decide, rather than the court of public opinion?

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