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Companies should probably pay $2k per person for open source (2017)

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Re: Companies should probably pay $2k per person for open source (2017)

#71
post #14
post #6

Overall this is a good idea but with too many options to turn ugly fast. You need to carefully examine the situation: For instance at an old job my contract contained the following sentence: "all intellectual property and code, developed during or outside working hours, regardless of it's nature or purpose belongs to {COMPANY_NAME}". Somehow if my employer pays me extra for working on personal(albeit open source) pro…

That's a good point, and also, what a horrendous thing to have in your contract. I wonder if it's even legal for them to claim ownership of unrelated code done outside work hours.

It's not just code either, it's all intellectual property. Can't write a book without the company owning it.

Re: Companies should probably pay $2k per person for open source (2017)

#72
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not far off for a developer in the US. You figure they make somewhere from 80-150k in the median, X2 all-in cost as a rule of thumb for employment in the US, so 2k/dev is ~1% or "rounding error"

Sure, but I'm saying compare it to something like Oracle (what other commercial software is still out there? I don't know). What does a company pay annually for Oracle (expressed per engineer for comparison)?

Soooooo I realized that commercial software is no longer onpremise (Oracle) but SaaS. :D

Anecdotally, $2,000 per user per year would be a really expensive SaaS app (right?). Not exactly apples to apples but so far I think $2,000/user/yr is a good ballpark for open source value. Note also that the blog post indicates a 50% markdown in labor value because companies pay a tax to direct employee time, so people should expect to get paid less when working self-determinedly on open source.

Re: Companies should probably pay $2k per person for open source (2017)

#73
post #33

I think this is good will for sure, and 2k is a rounding error to the cost of most enterprise software, but the real problem with (most) FOSS is the lack of clear structure or organization in terms of payment. Not only who gets paid, but also how much to pay, how to quantity roles and work, spending if necessary, etc. That’s the real problem/opportunity for someone like Gratipay.

Worst case scenario, I guarantee you if you open an issue on a repo (especially a small / one-person repo) saying you want to donate $1k/yr, or some non-trivial amount, you'll get a meaningful response. True though that for larger projects there can be a lack of ownership problem. The conversation could become "hey we'd like to lend you our legal resources to help you set up a foundation for this project, and then we…

Right, this is the most common model I’ve seen: forming a foundation and companies contribute via that foundation, either workers/staff/people or money.

Re: Companies should probably pay $2k per person for open source (2017)

#74

I think this is good will for sure, and 2k is a rounding error to the cost of most enterprise software, but the real problem with (most) FOSS is the lack of clear structure or organization in terms of payment. Not only who gets paid, but also how much to pay, how to quantity roles and work, spending if necessary, etc. That’s the real problem/opportunity for someone like Gratipay.

perhaps this is something DAOs can fix.

Could you elaborate? My understanding of what you’re saying is the organization will be specified in code, whether that be compensation via commits or transactions or what have you, and then companies pay into this DAO contract?

Re: Companies should probably pay $2k per person for open source (2017)

#75
post #62
post #37

I can't tell what "Person" in the headline maps to. Like, for a non-tech company, is that every employee, every employee in the IT org, or every developer in the IT org?

IC engineer. That's the brightest line for comparison across companies (dim though it may be), as well as the primary role whose productivity is materially multiplied due to open source (i.e., imagine if the engineer had to build everything they get from open source).

So yeah for a non-tech company it'd be something like "every developer in the IT org."

Re: Companies should probably pay $2k per person for open source (2017)

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

perhaps this is something DAOs can fix.

Could you elaborate? My understanding of what you’re saying is the organization will be specified in code, whether that be compensation via commits or transactions or what have you, and then companies pay into this DAO contract?

essentially it could license the open source for commercial use transparently and automatically, when you pull the library/package.

zero negotiations, zero lawyers, just a commandline one-liner or something.

micropayments for package management.

Re: Companies should probably pay $2k per person for open source (2017)

#77

I think this is good will for sure, and 2k is a rounding error to the cost of most enterprise software, but the real problem with (most) FOSS is the lack of clear structure or organization in terms of payment. Not only who gets paid, but also how much to pay, how to quantity roles and work, spending if necessary, etc. That’s the real problem/opportunity for someone like Gratipay.

There's several 100+ million dollar businesses where I live that make their money on phone support/installation/deployment of open source software they maintain. Nobody pays for the software, but they'll pay out the nose on a yearly basis for support.

Re: Companies should probably pay $2k per person for open source (2017)

#78
post #69
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a lot of pivoting going on near the end, unfortunately. The "companies pay" version of the site wasn't around for very long.

Thrashing, one might even call it. :)

Glad to see you're still around!

Re: Companies should probably pay $2k per person for open source (2017)

#79

I think this is good will for sure, and 2k is a rounding error to the cost of most enterprise software, but the real problem with (most) FOSS is the lack of clear structure or organization in terms of payment. Not only who gets paid, but also how much to pay, how to quantity roles and work, spending if necessary, etc. That’s the real problem/opportunity for someone like Gratipay.

There's several 100+ million dollar businesses where I live that make their money on phone support/installation/deployment of open source software they maintain. Nobody pays for the software, but they'll pay out the nose on a yearly basis for support.

That creates a perverse incentive where you want your open source stuff to be hard to use so people have to pay you.

Plus there's no guarantee that the developers will be the ones making money. There's a lot of ire at Amazon because of that.

Re: Companies should probably pay $2k per person for open source (2017)

#80
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 2k is a rounding error to the cost of most enterprise software 2k per engineer ... that's more than a rounding error. It'd be interesting to compare to per-seat licensing for commercial software. Anyone have examples?

It's not far off for a developer in the US. You figure they make somewhere from 80-150k in the median, X2 all-in cost as a rule of thumb for employment in the US, so 2k/dev is ~1% or "rounding error"

Can you please elaborate what are “X2 all-in cost” for a $150k software engineer?

I can imagine it would include things like an office space, snacks, yoga classes, etc. I don’t think it is anywhere close to additional $150k, maybe $10-20k.

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