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What is this Gemini thing, and why am I excited about it? (2020)

drewdevault.com

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Re: What is this Gemini thing, and why am I excited about it? (2020)

#71

Post by tdeck »

zchrykng wrote: post #21
cheesetable wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HTTP supports extensibility via HTTP headers and methods. Gemini to not be evolved: * HTTP is now for interactivity, complex clients, WebGL, Webassembly, ... * Gemini is for a segregated simpler web: links and text.

And Gemini being its own stand-alone thing that is different from everything is a serious hindrance for people to try it. I've read Drew's stuff for a while and even wanted to test out Gemini out of interest, but it is really annoying/frustrating to use in my experience. And that is even before you get to the fact that there is nearly nothing there and/or it is nearly impossible. to find.

I don't see any reason why someone couldn't create a web gateway and/or search engine for browsing Gemini if they were so inclined.

Re: What is this Gemini thing, and why am I excited about it? (2020)

#72

Post by Andrex »

Daegalus wrote: post #64

Gemini is great, but I'm would love one step up from this. html/css support, no JS. or Markdown with CSS styling or something that's just a little more than plain text but still close. I've been meaning to try and make my own browser that only supports html/css or Markdown and maybe its own protocol like Gemini's I'll add it to my ever growing Todo list.

Nothing stopping you from turning off JS in your web browser. ;)

I have, and whitelist the sites that really need it.

Re: What is this Gemini thing, and why am I excited about it? (2020)

#73

Post by Andrex »

knowledge-clay wrote: post #57
selfhoster11 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't it OK to offer that option, but disabled by default?

It's not OK in the sense that it is a spec violation, at least. Some clients have images that load in-line on mouseover or click, which isn't a spec violation. You could do that with HTML.

If people specifically sought out your client because it automatically renders images inline, who could be bothered to get upset about a "spec violation"? The author of Gemini? What would he be able to do?

Honestly asking because I'm curious.

Re: What is this Gemini thing, and why am I excited about it? (2020)

#74

Post by Daegalus »

Andrex wrote: post #72
Daegalus wrote: post #64

Gemini is great, but I'm would love one step up from this. html/css support, no JS. or Markdown with CSS styling or something that's just a little more than plain text but still close. I've been meaning to try and make my own browser that only supports html/css or Markdown and maybe its own protocol like Gemini's I'll add it to my ever growing Todo list.

Nothing stopping you from turning off JS in your web browser. ;) I have, and whitelist the sites that really need it.

I did that for a while, but I want to kind of enforce it. If a sight is unusuable without JS, maybe its worth finding an alternative.

Or maybe form a new sub-internet of just javascript-less web. HTML, server-side rendering, etc.

Re: What is this Gemini thing, and why am I excited about it? (2020)

#75

Post by Andrex »

Daegalus wrote: post #74
Andrex wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing stopping you from turning off JS in your web browser. ;) I have, and whitelist the sites that really need it.

I did that for a while, but I want to kind of enforce it. If a sight is unusuable without JS, maybe its worth finding an alternative. Or maybe form a new sub-internet of just javascript-less web. HTML, server-side rendering, etc.

Definitely a cool idea. I've thought a lot about this idea as I'm sure many others on this post have. A protocol for just HTML/CSS (and a lightweight bridge) could be cool to see. This desire was why I was initially on board with AMP (before I saw the bigger problems with that format.)

I've also thought about a JSON-only protocol. In my mind this would make it simple to do AJAX-type interactions for loading content (the core benefit of JS to me) while still excising JS in its entirety, but I haven't thought it through very far admittedly.

This is the first time I'm hearing about Gemini and I'm really intrigued, especially how it's handling input and identity. There's potential here...

Re: What is this Gemini thing, and why am I excited about it? (2020)

#76

Post by NateEag »

cyounkins wrote: post #63

Is extensibility really the Pandora's box the author makes it out to be? Just because something is extensible doesn't mean it has to be extended in monstrous ways.

Human nature being what it is, anything that can be extended will be extended in monstrous ways.

It is no coincidence that "hack" means both "abuse of a system's intended design" and "clever trick that we all admire."

Re: What is this Gemini thing, and why am I excited about it? (2020)

#77

Post by ativzzz »

skybrian wrote: post #10

What’s something interesting to read that’s on Gemini?

I think the problem is that there is a pretty narrow set of highly technical people using Gemini, the kind that exists on so many other communities on the regular web (like here on HN)

Re: What is this Gemini thing, and why am I excited about it? (2020)

#78

Post by knowledge-clay »

Andrex wrote: post #73
knowledge-clay wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not OK in the sense that it is a spec violation, at least. Some clients have images that load in-line on mouseover or click, which isn't a spec violation. You could do that with HTML.

If people specifically sought out your client because it automatically renders images inline, who could be bothered to get upset about a "spec violation"? The author of Gemini? What would he be able to do? Honestly asking because I'm curious.

Probably someone would submit a PR complaining. A lot of folks in the gemini community are strict about the spec. In my view, they would be justified in doing so — I think adherence to specs is important in any domain, not just gemini.

Re: What is this Gemini thing, and why am I excited about it? (2020)

#79

Post by tadfisher »

Andrex wrote: post #73
knowledge-clay wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not OK in the sense that it is a spec violation, at least. Some clients have images that load in-line on mouseover or click, which isn't a spec violation. You could do that with HTML.

If people specifically sought out your client because it automatically renders images inline, who could be bothered to get upset about a "spec violation"? The author of Gemini? What would he be able to do? Honestly asking because I'm curious.

Drew himself threatened to block a Gemini agent that fetched /favicon.png on every page load. I tend to agree with the idea that Gemini should not be extended, as there's always HTTP+HTML for that.

Re: What is this Gemini thing, and why am I excited about it? (2020)

#80

Post by tadfisher »

anigbrowl wrote: post #31
skybrian wrote: post #10

What’s something interesting to read that’s on Gemini?

I keep asking this question and not getting a useful answer. Someone made a Wikipedia bridge for it, which is the best thing I've seen so far, but it took me a while to find it. Most Gemini users with their own pages seem to be coming at it from the perspective of 'you are someone who is already interested in me , so you be motivated to investigate my Gemini address.' But if I don't know anyone else who is using it,…

Because it's exactly how the Web used to be.

Gemini supports form input, BTW, so a search engine could be built if someone wanted one.

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