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The physics anomaly no one talks about: What’s up with those neutrinos?

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Re: The physics anomaly no one talks about: What’s up with those neutrinos?

#71
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again: the next step is not more experiments. The experiments are done , and confirmed the discrepancy. The next step is theorizing, which can be done in isolation, relatively unaffected by pandemic. That is what is now neglected. After hypotheses have been shown to be plausible, i.e. account for the result correctly, yet consistent with other results, it will be time to design experiments to choose among them. So, n…

Not a professional physicist but… Given the absurdly low rate of detection, it feels like a focused experiment designed explicitly to maximise detection is warranted. Difficulty of neutrino experiments aside, this is physics! If we want more detection events we just need to make more particles and/or build a bigger detection apparatus. I don’t necessarily think there’s much benefit to a “larger volume” detector in th…

Once again(!!), the problem is not detection. It took 15 years to get what we got, but we got enough. (Why is this so hard to grasp, even with it explained over, and over, and over?)

The problem is that what we did get demonstrates conclusively that there are new physics to elucidate. There are various possibilities for how those will turn out, with different results to be determined, and to design experiments to check on. Right now it doesn't look like anybody knows how to design those experiments, or what even to look for.

And, weirdly, there have been no headlines about this, and apparently no papers published proposing details of the new physics and their implications for what we might attempt to measure, or expect to find if we succeeded in measuring.

Re: The physics anomaly no one talks about: What’s up with those neutrinos?

#72
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a professional physicist but… Given the absurdly low rate of detection, it feels like a focused experiment designed explicitly to maximise detection is warranted. Difficulty of neutrino experiments aside, this is physics! If we want more detection events we just need to make more particles and/or build a bigger detection apparatus. I don’t necessarily think there’s much benefit to a “larger volume” detector in th…

Once again(!!) , the problem is not detection. It took 15 years to get what we got, but we got enough . (Why is this so hard to grasp, even with it explained over, and over, and over?) The problem is that what we did get demonstrates conclusively that there are new physics to elucidate. There are various possibilities for how those will turn out, with different results to be determined, and to design experiments to c…

I’m aware it’s not an issue of detection. I was more speaking to the ancillary issues surrounding the result. The last thing we need is to wait 15 more years while people argue over experiment design validity before anything gets done to even begin investigation into the new physics that may be hidden here.

Any new higher flux neutrino (or anti neutrino) source will be just as useful for subsequent studies into this phenomena. The nice thing about neutrinos in this case is they go through basically everything. So nothing stops a new particle source being constructed specifically for multiple such experiments. Unless for some reason distances from source to detector are such a sensitive value in the potential experiment setups that every subsequent experiment needs to be exactly 20 or 30 meters from the particle source, barring that we could easily setup a line of different experiments a hundred meters long or more! If subsequent experiments hope to produce results with sufficient statistical detail to elucidate the new physics this points towards they are likely to be significantly aided by a higher flux source.

Science is a team sport and the sport of neutrino flux anomaly research currently has measures its innings/quarters/sets in decades. It may take two or even more rounds of subsequent experiments to fully uncover what’s going on here… not because we’re waiting for the next great mind… but because our puny particle accelerators aren’t making enough neutrinos for us to study this phenomenon faster than the pitch drop experiment!

Re: The physics anomaly no one talks about: What’s up with those neutrinos?

#73

> Now, to be fair, neutrino-mixing in and by itself isn’t all that weird. Indeed, quarks also do this mixing, it’s just that they don’t mix as much. That *neutrinos mix is weird because neutrinos can only mix if they have masses. But we don’t know how they get masses. Could someone explain to a layman why "neutrinos can only mix if they have masses"? Perhaps I don't understand what it means to "mix"

I believe...

Particles without mass are required to travel at the speed of light. Particles traveling at the speed of light don't experience time in their own frame of reference. For instance a photon is emitted and absorbed at the same instance from its point of view. So they have no time to do anything like change properties.

Re: The physics anomaly no one talks about: What’s up with those neutrinos?

#74

>Maybe people just don’t like neutrinos? My sentiment exactly.

To be fair, they are sort of boring.

They don't do anything, there is no use for them really, they don't even have many properties...

The only real effect they have is making physicists' maths a little more complex (or slightly wrong if they forget them).

Re: The physics anomaly no one talks about: What’s up with those neutrinos?

#75
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once again(!!) , the problem is not detection. It took 15 years to get what we got, but we got enough . (Why is this so hard to grasp, even with it explained over, and over, and over?) The problem is that what we did get demonstrates conclusively that there are new physics to elucidate. There are various possibilities for how those will turn out, with different results to be determined, and to design experiments to c…

I’m aware it’s not an issue of detection. I was more speaking to the ancillary issues surrounding the result. The last thing we need is to wait 15 more years while people argue over experiment design validity before anything gets done to even begin investigation into the new physics that may be hidden here. Any new higher flux neutrino (or anti neutrino) source will be just as useful for subsequent studies into this…

I get you: It would take another 20+ years to test any new hypothesis. So, publishing yours, even if you think you're right, doesn't feel too urgent, and wouldn't advance your career anytime soon. The Nobel would come at best 40 years later, and then only if you were right and they were generous.

So to fire anybody up, we need to be able to test hypotheses in a lot less than 20 years.

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