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The Big Escape: How the Ultra-Wealthy Avoid Paying Taxes and How to Fix It [pdf]

warren.senate.gov

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Re: The Big Escape: How the Ultra-Wealthy Avoid Paying Taxes and How to Fix It [pdf]

#71

Post by cscurmudgeon »

ulkram wrote: post #70
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/01/699261950/why-a-wealth-tax-di... > ROSALSKY: In 1990, there were 12 countries in Europe that had a wealth tax. Today there are only three. Perret says they didn't work for a lot of reasons. Among other things, it costs a lot to enforce. It pushed rich people out of the country, and the wealth taxes didn't raise a lot of revenue. But > ROSALSKY: But Warren says that her proposal, which h…

not an expert, but I thought the US is unique in that you can't escape taxes unless you renounce citizenship. and even then, there's an exit tax

Renounce, pay the tax once and live free?

Re: The Big Escape: How the Ultra-Wealthy Avoid Paying Taxes and How to Fix It [pdf]

#72

Post by sna1l »

trutannus wrote: post #34
sna1l wrote: post #18

It is interesting that everyone says that the wealth tax is hard to implement, yet it seems to be working well in Switzerland? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-02-16/swiss-wea...

They have no capital gains tax. Overall the wealth tax is a lower cost to individuals than the style of wealth taxes en-vogue in a lot of places now. Wealth taxes require liquidation of assets to pay, given the nature of wealth. When you liquidate assets, you pay cap gains tax and then have to pay the wealth tax. In Switzerland, you just pay the wealth tax. Basically, you have to be taxed to pay the tax in most place…

France is an interesting example. I believe their wealth tax targeted more than just the super rich and it led to a heavy exodus of millionaires from France. Also by not having an exit tax, it was easy enough for people to leave France to avoid this.

Re: The Big Escape: How the Ultra-Wealthy Avoid Paying Taxes and How to Fix It [pdf]

#73

Post by mrkurt »

nerdjon wrote: post #64
csallen wrote: post #3

> In 2018, Warren Buffett had a net worth of $84 billion. The effective tax rate on his mountain of wealth? 0.006%—orders of magnitude lower than the tax rates paid by most middle-class families. What tax rate do middle-class families pay on their net worth? 0% I believe, since we don't have wealth taxes?

This is something I have always been curious about but really not talked about in any of these studies. (I am purposefully ignoring the companies not paying taxes since that I think is a valid issue if we are talking about income). So Warren Buffet may have $84 billion in stocks and assets, but how much did he actually sell? How much money went from selling stocks to his bank account? I think that number if far more…

You're not really missing anything, but there's a giant loophole.

If you have $84 billion (or even $20 million) in stocks and assets, you can borrow against them without converting them to income. Then you can die. Then your estate pays off the debt without paying income taxes. Thus, 0 income taxes over a lifetime of converting wealth to income.

Re: The Big Escape: How the Ultra-Wealthy Avoid Paying Taxes and How to Fix It [pdf]

#74

Post by cscurmudgeon »

littlestymaar wrote: post #66
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.npr.org/2019/03/01/699261950/why-a-wealth-tax-di... > ROSALSKY: In 1990, there were 12 countries in Europe that had a wealth tax. Today there are only three. Perret says they didn't work for a lot of reasons. Among other things, it costs a lot to enforce. It pushed rich people out of the country, and the wealth taxes didn't raise a lot of revenue. But > ROSALSKY: But Warren says that her proposal, which h…

> Perret says they didn't work for a lot of reasons. Among other things, it costs a lot to enforce. It pushed rich people out of the country, and the wealth taxes didn't raise a lot of revenue. In France at least, it has been a topic of political debate for decades before the recent abolition and what's clear at this point is that it costed much less than what it brought (both in terms of law enforcement, and in term…

> . Renouncing to US citizenship would still be an option of course, but I'd expect the opportunity cost would be much higher than the cost of the tax itself.

Why? In 2021, a lot of countries have US levels or better infrastructure. The owner can reside outside the US and still make products for the US and the world.

> Americans Gave Up Citizenship in Record Numbers in 2020, Up Triple From 2019, Reports Tax Specialists Americans Overseas

https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/americans-gave-up-c...

Re: The Big Escape: How the Ultra-Wealthy Avoid Paying Taxes and How to Fix It [pdf]

#75

Post by satronaut »

belltaco wrote: post #41
iammisc wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, this is written in extremely manipulative language. What was warren buffett's income in 2018? We have income tax, not wealth tax. Plus, a lot of that wealth is likely 'in' his company, which is really just fake money. I mean, I know accountants look at it and there is some overlap for taxes when doing things like options and share grants and FMV, but really, a company is worth zero until you sell it, like most…

>Plus, a lot of that wealth is likely 'in' his company, which is really just fake money. Then maybe we should give the poor some of this "fake money" since it's fake and doesn't matter anyway. >EDIT: Repeat after me: net worth increases are not income. Net worth increases are not income. I mean, I "made" $250k last year in home appreciation, but that's just fake money. If they taxed me on it, it would come out of my…

Everyone gets a free education for 12 years, and access to infinite knowledge (library with books and internet). Qualifying families also have access to dirt cheap internet (at&t offers internet for 10$ a month if you're poor).

Most anybody has the means to research how to set up an amazon store, a blog, or a youtube channel and start making business income. But instead of spending their time learning how to better their life, they waste it on social media, watching tv, etc.

Re: The Big Escape: How the Ultra-Wealthy Avoid Paying Taxes and How to Fix It [pdf]

#76

Post by sour-taste »

vmception wrote: post #20

Okay I read this. It gives no details on what loopholes would be closed, and then conflated that with tax cheats and that a well funded IRS will solve both. A well funded IRS will just be rubber stamping the compliant tax reducing methods faster. Although most constituent's experience with the IRS is retroactive and adversarial, wealthier people's experience with the IRS is pre-emptive and collaborative. It is a tota…

I believe most of this is based on public reporting by propublica: https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trov...
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