The Perils of an .xyz Domain • Hacker News Board

Re: The Perils of an .xyz Domain

#71

Post by kop316 » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 6:35 PM UTC

frosted-flakes wrote: post #63

kop316 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They certainly do. In Chatty: https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/chatty/-/merge_requests/786 . Some carriers even charge for the service (!!): https://source.puri.sm/Librem5/chatty/-/issues/434 MMS has delivery reports too (I implimented support for it myself for mainline Linux Phones). It even has read reports, but no carrier seems to honor using it (which is why I didn't bother to impliment it). I'm not sure if Android…

There is an option to enable delivery receipts on Android (Google and Samsung). I believe it is disabled by default.

Read reciepts or delivery reports?

I'm not sure if SMS supports read reciepts, but I didn't think so. The MMS standard allows for read receipts ("MAY" not "SHALL"), I was unable to get it working, and I suspect it's due to no carrier support.

I was unable to get read receipts working at all, and I suspect it's because the carrier doesn't impliment it.

Re: The Perils of an .xyz Domain

#72

Post by blowski » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 6:35 PM UTC

mindslight wrote: post #52

blowski wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say I have a rule to block emails that mention "bitcoin" from arriving in my inbox. Is that censorship? Let's say, so many people have set up a similar rule that the email provider offers a quick way of adding that very rule. Is that censorship? Let's say, so many people use that "quick way" that the email provider turns it on by default. Is that censorship?

No, No, Yes. "Censorship" comes from the word "censor" - an intermediary who controls speech. Programmers need to stop assuming that every situation is scale- and convenience-invariant.

If the email provider says "Would you like us to add a set of rules people tend to add?", is that censorship?

There's a very fuzzy line somewhere, on one side of which a provider is helping users get what they want, and on the other is blocking content they don't want users to receive. I'm exploring where that line is.

While you have a right to send emails to me, I have a right to sign up for a service that automatically blocks emails I don't want to receive. The line is crossed when that service starts blocking emails I would like to receive. I'd say there is a pretty competitive market of email providers, and the rules are reasonably transparent about what's being blocked. Thus, it seems that "censorship" is a rather strong accusation here.

Re: The Perils of an .xyz Domain

#73

Post by dhosek » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 6:35 PM UTC

Wikipedia has a blanket ban on .xyz domains unless specifically whitelisted. I'll likely move finl.xyz to some other tld eventually.

Re: The Perils of an .xyz Domain

#74

Post by jer0me » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 6:38 PM UTC

bink wrote: post #58

type0 wrote: post #54

Why are .net domain names relatively unpopular? New technology sites often use .io and .dev even when there are a lot of available .net names.

.net and .org were the original .xyz. Back in the late 90s and early 2000s they were seen as less reputable for businesses. I think they still carry some of that tarnish.

.org domains actually have some credibility as there's this misconception that you need to be a non-profit to register one, like how you have to be a accredited university to register a .edu domain or a government entity to register a .gov domain. .net domains however have a bad reputation regardless for some reason.

Re: The Perils of an .xyz Domain

#75

Post by ev1 » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 6:39 PM UTC

soco wrote: post #48

It's sometimes difficult to believe how much misguided logic is put into input validation. Addresses which must have a street and a number, middle names not allowed, valid postal codes not recognized or auto-filling the wrong town, arbitrary maximum length for street names, and I could go on. We programmers (or we product managers?) invest way too much time in nonsense.

I really hate this. I've seen separate input fields for street number and street name. Meanwhile you have vendors with street addresses like "Vodafone House, The Connection, Newbury RG14 2FN"

Re: The Perils of an .xyz Domain

#76

Post by teddyh » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 6:39 PM UTC

mindslight wrote: post #52

blowski wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say I have a rule to block emails that mention "bitcoin" from arriving in my inbox. Is that censorship? Let's say, so many people have set up a similar rule that the email provider offers a quick way of adding that very rule. Is that censorship? Let's say, so many people use that "quick way" that the email provider turns it on by default. Is that censorship?

No, No, Yes. "Censorship" comes from the word "censor" - an intermediary who controls speech. Programmers need to stop assuming that every situation is scale- and convenience-invariant.

> Programmers need to stop assuming that every situation is scale- and convenience-invariant.

I’ve seen it termed the “All Ns are equally likely” fallacy. I.e. when programmers write code, they know that they should write different code for when N is 0, for when N is 1, but as soon as it goes higher, most programmers tend to write code which is optimized for arbitrary values of N, even though in actual practice N might almost always be, say, at most 10. This often leads to inefficient and overcomplicated code, where a simpler algorithm might be faster most of the time while still able to correctly, if more slowly, deal with non-typical values of N.

Re: The Perils of an .xyz Domain

#77

Post by duskwuff » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 6:40 PM UTC

krono wrote: post #26

humanistbot wrote: post #2

> One surprising side effect of having a .xyz domain is that the mere inclusion of .xyz inside of a text message will result in a silent delivery failure for many providers. This is wild to me. Tested it out myself and I couldn't send an SMS with a spot.xyz link to/from Google Voice T-Mobile. And no "failed delivery" notice either, just a silent failure. And yet I still get so many texts that are obviously spam or ph…

Blocking of messages/emails and blanket email server/domain/extension blacklisting is the same as a postal service not delivering mail to or from a particular entity/street/town. Doing so silently and without a valid and case-specific reason should not be legally allowed. Edit: Added "street/town" to analogy, and "case-specific" before reason

You'd be getting an unbelievable amount of SMS spam if carriers weren't allowed to block messages. There's a lot of bad actors out there.

Re: The Perils of an .xyz Domain

#78

Post by frosted-flakes » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 6:41 PM UTC

kop316 wrote: post #71

frosted-flakes wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an option to enable delivery receipts on Android (Google and Samsung). I believe it is disabled by default.

Read reciepts or delivery reports? I'm not sure if SMS supports read reciepts, but I didn't think so. The MMS standard allows for read receipts ("MAY" not "SHALL"), I was unable to get it working, and I suspect it's due to no carrier support. I was unable to get read receipts working at all, and I suspect it's because the carrier doesn't impliment it.

Delivery receipts, I've edited my comment. I've never been able to get read receipts to work. If I enable it, sometimes I will receive an actual text message that "123-456-7890 has read your message", instead of just marking the message as read.

Re: The Perils of an .xyz Domain

#79

Post by CydeWeys » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 6:41 PM UTC

readflaggedcomm wrote: post #69

EduardoBautista wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't noticed any issues. An advantage of .dev is that it belongs to Google, so I am sure it that will work smoothly for the most part.

Alphabet also owns abc.xyz, but the author observes that Google Voice seems to censor it.

But .xyz does not belong to Google, and the contamination is coming from all the other bad .xyz domains that Google has no control over.

Re: The Perils of an .xyz Domain

#80

Post by Twisell » Thu, Sep 16, 2021, 6:41 PM UTC

Got a nice .xyz domain mainly for mail with SPF,DKIM correctly set up and tested against multiple validators.

No big issues so far except for the HR department of a potential new gig which can painlessly mail me@mydomain.xyz about job interviews BUT never get my replies back.

I don't who to blame more in this mess:

- Me for playing smartass instead of using a @gmail.com because they impose the rules so everybody comply to them (maybe my reluctance to encourage this broken system explain my recklessness)

- The IT department of this organization that probably didn't what to deal with modern standard and/or reasonable spam filtering and set up a blunt rule for new TLD (I mean come on it was a REPLY to a mail ADRESSED to this specific mailbox)

- The broken system that keep on inventing arbitrary new rules that everyone must implement to keep getting accepted by "the big players". (For instance I already had to change hosting two years ago because apparently you are also responsible for bad neighbors)

Guess i'll just have to be brave and migrate to a more classical TLD and set up redirects to ease transition. But it's pretty annoying to start over with crap like that because some dudes in "the big players" teams decided to ban a whole TLD just because it's "easier".