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Software should convey a sense of calm

patrickjuchli.com

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Re: Software should convey a sense of calm

#71

Post by Zababa »

anchpop wrote: post #68
Zababa wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good example that was discussed recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28504573 The justification isn't "It helps users" or anything like that. It's "This is not a new idea either — pretty much everyone else is doing it, e.g. macOS, Windows, iOS, Android, elementary OS, KDE.". Reducing usability and breaking habits to follow trends is a bad thing.

This is a purely aesthetic change, it doesn't break any habits. In this case, it probably also improves usability, because there's less visual noise connected to those buttons, which lets you draw attention to buttons the user might not already know about using the same technique while staying within a certain 'visual noise budget'. Users expect that icons on the header bar are buttons (what else would they be?), so…

> In this case, it probably also improves usability, because there's less visual noise connected to those buttons

Yes, because there are no buttons anymore, just icons. Icons are not button. Icons are icons, buttons are buttons

> which lets you draw attention to buttons the user might not already know about using the same technique while staying within a certain 'visual noise budget'.

That "visual noice" is the zone where you can click on a button. I also don't believe that "visual noise budget" thing at all. Maybe it helps a bit first time users, but most software shouldn't optimize for first time users. I'll add that not everyone has a perfect eyesight or perfect mouse control. That new style is bound to be frustrating for a few people.

> Users expect that icons on the header bar are buttons (what else would they be?), so there's no need to call attention to that fact with an extra visual indicator.

Actually, having fallbacks and multiple ways to signal something is a great thing. For example, if you only use color to indicate something, colorblind users may have a hard time using it. Icons and tooltips when you hover over it is also a good way to achieve that.

> "Following trends" is a good thing because users appreciate when a piece of software looks like software they're already familiar with. It is maybe slightly annoying to people who already are used to the software, but every new user benefits from it.

So they're focusing on new users instead of people that actually use their software. I don't see how that is a good thing. If this was just one change, I may agree with you, but this is a sign of a larger trend of constantly changing interfaces for absolutely no benefit to the user.

Re: Software should convey a sense of calm

#73

Post by nbzso »

jimmaswell wrote: post #9

> I want to find the same things in the same places How else will designers justify their jobs? I wonder if designer should be reworked to be a seasonal or consultancy job only, to only hire them when you're making a new product/big feature or there's a drastic need to change things but never otherwise. Having them as permanent staff leads to our present usability and accessability nightmare of everything constantly…

You are essentially right. That's why I switched my focus from UX only to UI and front-end implementation.

Fighting for 20 years to educate programmers and investors on the importance of Human Centered Design and Function over Form approach, is hard. And I and everybody in the Design Industry have failed miserably.

Now when every startup has a boilerplate, templates and libraries in hand and "that's enough".

Designers (or I may say - Decorators) are "thousands a dime", they are racing themselves to the bottom of the pit. But I am cool with it. After all SaaS design software is here to collect and label enough data for big Neural Model to emerge and remove design from the picture. So your dream will come true, and you will be next in line of removal from production pipeline.

Having programmers as permanent staff when you need the same CRUD paradigm is unnecessary, and you can hire as a consultants when you're making a new product/feature but never otherwise.

Re: Software should convey a sense of calm

#74

Post by np_tedious »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #14

Sounds like fairly bog-standard Usability. Folks like Jakob Nielsen have been calling this kind of thing out for decades. They have not always been popular. I think a lot of this depends on the target audience. If it is a wide-distribution consumer application, then I like the "swimming duck" analogy, where it looks smooth and calm, above water, but is paddling like hell, underneath. That's what I strive for, myself,…

Adjusting information density to the desired audience is a very real thing. I've also had a lot of success (and fun!) with internal tools that display a lot of stuff but would be terrible for consumer software

Re: Software should convey a sense of calm

#75

Post by userbinator »

layer8 wrote: post #55
UweSchmidt wrote: post #34

I'd be glad to check out any examples of software that come close to this ideal.

The Windows 2000 user interface. Uniform look and behavior, very discoverable, clearly identifyable controls, “boring” gray.

Contrast with Windows 11 - inconsistent UI, and adverts and notifications/nags blasting at you from every place they could fit one in. The exact opposite of calm.

Re: Software should convey a sense of calm

#76

Post by bob1029 »

brundolf wrote: post #57

I agree with the goal, I have mixed feelings about the listed solutions I'd like to add one: using consistent metaphors. A user of software is constantly trying to form a mental model of how this ethereal, formless thing behaves. A state machine. What can and cannot happen, what will and will not happen after a given action, what can and cannot happen once we're in a different state. The shakier and less scrutable an…

> If I click a tab and then click back to the previous one, I expect to return to the same state I was in. If I change the text in one field, I expect that unrelated fields won't be impacted by that. Etc. This is a good starting point.

This is such a huge fucking deal. I could not hope to overstate the importance of UI flow & proper state management.

It took us 7 years of mistakes & learning to figure out how to do this correctly. We had to learn to listen to the customer and not give in to our inner lazy developer.

We now have total confidence in our ability to back-navigate through complex workflows, or arbitrarily switch between instances of them. Without breaking things. It is so intuitive to our users to be able to think "oh wait no i need to go back and change XYZ" or "I need to put this on hold so I can help this customer real quick". In our target market, the work is very complex and error-prone, so you are usually editing your previous inputs and double checking the new output. Every screen in our application has a back button & next button in exactly the same spots on the screen. I watch some of our users go back by muscle memory 3-4 screens within a second or 2. Mapping the users' brains to your UI is crucial. Really helps if you don't play RNG with the coordinates.

It's really easy to paper over these things, especially if you are doubling down on a sub-par solution. Getting your users to want to use your app is really important in most situations. Even in a B2B setting, we hear our customers complain about bad UX in some of their other solutions and how this causes trouble for training & adoption. Even if you are getting paid for it, you still don't want to use trashy software. I have used software that you literally could not pay me to suffer with on a daily basis.

Re: Software should convey a sense of calm

#77

Post by jameshart »

Nonsense.

Software should meet its design goals.

A ground proximity warning software system should absolutely not “convey a sense of calm”. An online PvP battle arena game should not convey “a sense of calm”. I’m not sure a sense of calm is necessarily appropriate for a chat app, an ad blocker, or a to do list.

Do you even want a sense of calm from your compiler?

    > calmc main.calm
    Compiling… please relax…
    Okay, now, are you sitting down?
    Y/n> Y
    Okay, I have some bad news about line 27, but I don’t want you to panic

Re: Software should convey a sense of calm

#79

Post by jrm4 »

anchpop wrote: post #68
Zababa wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good example that was discussed recently: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28504573 The justification isn't "It helps users" or anything like that. It's "This is not a new idea either — pretty much everyone else is doing it, e.g. macOS, Windows, iOS, Android, elementary OS, KDE.". Reducing usability and breaking habits to follow trends is a bad thing.

This is a purely aesthetic change, it doesn't break any habits. In this case, it probably also improves usability, because there's less visual noise connected to those buttons, which lets you draw attention to buttons the user might not already know about using the same technique while staying within a certain 'visual noise budget'. Users expect that icons on the header bar are buttons (what else would they be?), so…

"This is a purely aesthetic change, it doesn't break any habits."

This sort of wrong (or more precisely easily falsifiable) statement perfectly exemplifies why I have so little respect for "design" as it currently exists.

You shouldn't just be able to say things like this that are nearly provably wrong on their face (e.g. I certain I can find 5, or 20, or more people who will definitely get slowed down by this)

Add on top of this the sheer stupidity of not being able to keep the old way if you like, an increasingly common thing.

Re: Software should convey a sense of calm

#80

Post by lmm »

ElFitz wrote: post #58
tmp_anon_22 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> from the field of Human Computer Interaction This is how you get death by a thousand A/B tests a la Google, Facebook, and other ultimately user-hostile interfaces that optimize for ad engagement. Give me a compassionate, thoughtful, designer who isn't an ass hole any day of the week.

Is this issue here how they optimise their interfaces or what they optimise them for?

The issue is that metrics are always imperfect, and so optimising for a metric always ends up damaging the thing you actually wanted to improve.
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